The Socialists Making the Poor Poorer

Moby

Generali wrote: »

This is twaddle. If the rich voted Tory and the poor voted Labour there'd never be another Tory Government.

Actually plenty of rich people vote Labour; Corbynistas, the new members to have joined around the time of and after Mr Corbyn's election, tend to be wealthy, educated and urban.

Maggie Thatchers victories were often ascribed to her success in courting 'Essex Man', the working classes of the home counties.

This idea that the put upon plebs vote Labour out of altruism and the high and mighty vote Tory, and get kick-backs as a result is silly and insulting to boot!

Dont get yer knickers in a twist. I wasnt saying that. I'm just saying the way things are going no young person will be able to build wealth, buy a property etc especially in London. This Govmt is doing nothing about that! Its a major issue here.

mwpt

Moby wrote: »

Dont get yer knickers in a twist. I wasnt saying that. I'm just saying the way things are going no young person will be able to build wealth, buy a property etc especially in London. This Govmt is doing nothing about that! Its a major issue here.

Actually they are. They're using your (and my) tax money to shore up and push prices higher by stimulating more demand in the various HTB schemes.

If I'm being generous I might be tempted to see this as a belief that if they stimulate demand and guarantee the lending, then builders will build more.

If I'm feeling cynical I might just view this as an attempt to increase borrowing, debt and money supply to stimulate the economy and counteract any shrinking of government borrowing.

Generali

Moby wrote: »

Dont get yer knickers in a twist. I wasnt saying that. I'm just saying the way things are going no young person will be able to build wealth, buy a property etc especially in London. This Govmt is doing nothing about that! Its a major issue here.

My knickers aren't twisted. They remain resolutely straightened.

This is a major issue and the Government has done a huge amount to try to address the underlying problem which is that it is too damn hard to build a house in the UK.

The basic problem is that if you want to build a house then you are almost certainly going to spend several years of legal action trying to get it built. The volume home builders employ more lawyers than architects I once heard it said.

The British people don't want to have houses built in the area where they live. Fundamentally, that keeps price and rents high and creates overcrowding.

Neither the Tories nor Labour are going to be able to address the fundamental problem unless people accept that houses need to be built in the UK. Until that happens, the problems will continue.

Moby

mwpt wrote: »

Actually they are. They're using your (and my) tax money to shore up and push prices higher by stimulating more demand in the various HTB schemes.

If I'm being generous I might be tempted to see this as a belief that if they stimulate demand and guarantee the lending, then builders will build more.

If I'm feeling cynical I might just view this as an attempt to increase borrowing, debt and money supply to stimulate the economy and counteract any shrinking of government borrowing.

I think the guru agrees with you! :-
http://monevator.com/

' it’s not cavalier risk-tolerant active investors like me who’ve suffered from low interest rates.
It’s more normal successful young people who earn say £30,000 a year and who have saved what would have once been considered a heroic £2,000 to £3,000 a year towards a house deposit, but whose savings have (relatively speaking) gone nowhere while prices – at least in the South East – have gone into orbit.'

THis is a debt led 'recovery', there is very little real sign of a change in attitude or values since the crash. I'm just grateful I bought a property in London in the early nineties. I'd never have been able to do it now.

antrobus

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Exit polls. Because noone can wait a few hours.

Can I be pedantic? Of course I can.:)

Don't you mean 'no one'? Noone plays for Cardiff City. I'm not convinced that he has any views on exit polls.

ukcarper

Moby wrote: »

Yep those statistics show the tories look after those who vote for them! - those who 'have' already accumulated their wealth!

That's exactly what I would expect, why would you think they wouldn't .

Mistermeaner

antrobus wrote: »

Can I be pedantic? Of course I can.:)

Don't you mean 'no one'? Noone plays for Cardiff City. I'm not convinced that he has any views on exit polls.

I was talking specifically about the cardiff player, but as you point out the same may apply to other people as well.

cells

Generali wrote: »

My knickers aren't twisted. They remain resolutely straightened.

This is a major issue and the Government has done a huge amount to try to address the underlying problem which is that it is too damn hard to build a house in the UK.

The basic problem is that if you want to build a house then you are almost certainly going to spend several years of legal action trying to get it built. The volume home builders employ more lawyers than architects I once heard it said.

The British people don't want to have houses built in the area where they live. Fundamentally, that keeps price and rents high and creates overcrowding.

Neither the Tories nor Labour are going to be able to address the fundamental problem unless people accept that houses need to be built in the UK. Until that happens, the problems will continue.

it should be seen as a massive opportunity.

lots of demand and lots of capital just awaiting a tick for a flood of economic activity and taxes and jobs to take place instead a very slow movement in direction.

specifically London needs to be totally redeveloped to become a world mega city. It may need as much as 7 million homes (currently has 3.5 million) and become a city of 15 million people by 2050.

A lot of the council estates need bulldozing and rebuilding at 3 x the density. Some private roads that are suitable need to be compulsory purchased and rebuilt at much higher density.

but that is not going to be cheap. I think we are just about there now with prices to allow that to happen in London. You could not really do it on 1990s prices or even 2000s prices.

BobQ

Generali wrote: »

You imply that you prefer engaged demagogues. Excuse me if I pass on that BobQ.

You could infer that, but my comment was simply that this is the way modern politics works. Our leaders used to try and appeal to the majority of the electorate even if they never achieved it. These days all the parties target the marginals. Governments largely set their policies to appeal to less than half the electorate. Demagoguery is alive and kicking within such a system.

BobQ

Generali wrote: »

This is twaddle. If the rich voted Tory and the poor voted Labour there'd never be another Tory Government.

Actually plenty of rich people vote Labour; Corbynistas, the new members to have joined around the time of and after Mr Corbyn's election, tend to be wealthy, educated and urban.

Maggie Thatchers victories were often ascribed to her success in courting 'Essex Man', the working classes of the home counties.

This idea that the put upon plebs vote Labour out of altruism and the high and mighty vote Tory, and get kick-backs as a result is silly and insulting to boot!

This is true. It also shows that demagoguery can move mountains of votes. So you can convince people to vote for you by persuading them that your policies will help them but in practice help them very little while benefiting your core vote. Osborne managed to convince poor working people to vote for him by convincing them that there were huge numbers of immigrants taking their jobs, loads of workshy people living the life of Riley on their taxes, etc. Very clever really.