The Socialists Making the Poor Poorer

Jonbvn

kinger101 wrote: »

I just watched the same programme on iPlayer. Very interesting on the lack of ability of the HMRC to challange the pricing of IP. I wasn't surprised by Bono. He's a sanctimonious ****. His tax avoidance has been known for some time.

What it highlights is the tax avoidance can only really be reduced through international co-operation. The EU facilitates this to some extent. We're not allowed to declare the Netherlands a tax haven (and impose withholding taxes) because of non-discrimination rules.

Bono really is a huge hypocrite isn't he?

BTW, loved that BBC program about tax avoidance. One of the participants get's my vote.

http://fairtaxtown.com/
https://www.change.org/p/consider-steve-lewis-for-next-chief-executive-of-hmrc-board-peoplestaxman?source_location=trending_petitions_home_page&algorithm=curated_trending

kinger101

TheNickster wrote: »

So will Cameron try to renegotiate this as part of his EU renegotioniations?

I see that Google has agreed to pay £13m a year for the last 10 years in corporation tax. Experts say this is no way near enough.

No, this isn't even on the table. The tax treaties themselves are bilateral (not EU), but the ECJ decides what non-discrimination is.

What's needed is campaigning within the EU so that they realize that they need to include some basic principles of taxation in all member states to close some of these loopholes.

mwpt

Jason74 wrote: »

I think that's very true MWPT. But then, in political terms, "hard core" anything tends to end badly. A total free market in everything with no state influence on (for example) who gets access to education or healthcare would be a pretty rubbish society too.

Evidence from around the world suggests that the best outcomes tend to come from having a broadly capitalist approach, with some state provision of essential services alongside government checks and balances to smooth out the worst of capitalism's excesses. It's a system that has largely worked well in the UK and Western Europe for decades now, and that would probably work well elsewhere.

Yes, agreed. I tend to favour systems that demonstrably work and make the most people better off. Social Democracy does seem to work, we have a milder version of this than Sweden (for e.g.) but in both countries the average person lives pretty well and there isn't much real poverty. Things could always be better but proposing extreme socialism because "things aren't perfect" doesn't seem to be the answer, to me (I am referring to vocal left).

mwpt

TheNickster wrote: »

Many economists argue that during a recession or times of very low growth (like now) running a deficit, or the right kind of government spending to be more precise, is necessary to kick start the economy that will more than pay for itself in the long term.

Yes, it is a popular meme on the internet. There are probably as many economists who think otherwise but even if we accept the view above, the major problem it has is it relies on whoever was in charge during the up cycle to be prudent and reign in spending. This never happens.

Why pick now to experiment with austerity unless it is ideological.

Well you're framing the situation to suit a particular view. Firstly, "experiment"? That has agenda written into it. It is policy, not experiment. And if someone believes it is ultimately the way to make everyone better off, can you still call it ideological? I guess you could but it could be a sound ideology.

Secondly, the deficit is shrinking and the UK has growth. In theory this should not be possible according to the economists you mention.

michaels

kinger101 wrote: »

No, this isn't even on the table. The tax treaties themselves are bilateral (not EU), but the ECJ decides what non-discrimination is.

What's needed is campaigning within the EU so that they realize that they need to include some basic principles of taxation in all member states to close some of these loopholes.

Have you ever found a problem for which the solution is not more Europe?
You are Mr Juncker and i claim my 5 EUR.

mwpt

michaels wrote: »

Have you ever found a problem for which the solution is not more Europe?
You are Mr Juncker and i claim my 5 EUR.

There is already a brexit thread guys.

CLAPTON

TheNickster wrote: »

Many economists argue that during a recession or times of very low growth (like now) running a deficit, or the right kind of government spending to be more precise, is necessary to kick start the economy that will more than pay for itself in the long term. Why pick now to experiment with austerity unless it is ideological.

Venezuelan 'socialist' policies in no way relate to policies advocated by any major party in the UK.

the normal widely 'accepted' theory is that, when there is a large measure of spare resources, then government spending will boost growth etc
However, at the moment it is difficult to argue that unemployment is high and that factories have little work.
As we still spend more than our income (ie. we borrow evry year) its difficult to call that austerity

Corbyn is an enthusiastic supporter of the Chavez fraction in Venezuela as they both share a deep hatred of USA democracy and a liking for communism.

redux

TheNickster wrote: »

Many economists argue that during a recession or times of very low growth (like now) running a deficit, or the right kind of government spending to be more precise, is necessary to kick start the economy that will more than pay for itself in the long term. Why pick now to experiment with austerity unless it is ideological.

Venezuelan 'socialist' policies in no way relate to policies advocated by any major party in the UK.

It isn't quite clear why the Osborne version is so keen to invest potentially tens or hundreds of millions of public funds in pushing up the price of housing.

40% interest free loan for first time buyers in London, though there are schemes where the proportion seems to go higher.

BobQ

redux wrote: »

It isn't quite clear why the Osborne version is so keen to invest potentially tens or hundreds of millions of public funds in pushing up the price of housing.

40% interest free loan for first time buyers in London, though there are schemes where the proportion seems to go higher.

Its called doing what gets you re-elected. That is keep over 35% of the population happy and let apathy and the democratic process do the rest for you.

antrobus

TheNickster wrote: »

Many economists argue that during a recession or times of very low growth (like now) running a deficit, or the right kind of government spending to be more precise, is necessary to kick start the economy that will more than pay for itself in the long term. Why pick now to experiment with austerity unless it is ideological. ...

I think you will find that " running a deficit" is exactly what we have been doing in the UK for a number of years. If you want to see a real "experiment with austerity", take a look at Greece.

TheNickster wrote: »

...Venezuelan 'socialist' policies in no way relate to policies advocated by any major party in the UK.

Have you been asleep? Have you not noticed that the Labour Party is now led by a certain man named Corbyn?

https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/309065744954580992?lang=en-gb
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/British-MP-Jeremy-Corbyn-Speaks-Out-For-Venezuela-20150605-0033.html