Inform the debate on the effect of the equalisation of the state pension age on women

Daniel54

Firstly, may I echo the view that this thread is edited /moderated ( ideally by those who decide to delete or move their off point discussions to an alternative thread) so that the replies reflect the questions answered by the deadline requested.

This is not to advocate removal of dissenting views however this topic has been covered over yards of threads and in this particular instance I would suggest it is justifiable that the reply to UKParliament broadly reflects the outcome of those discussions.Those of us who read and contribute to this board are almost by definition more interested and hopefully more informed than the average member of the public,but the entire raison d 'etre is to help and guide those with less knowledge.Pensions,be they state or private,cover multiple decades of contributions and legislative change.

My additions to what has been said before and which i have thanked by way of agreement are as follows:

[*]What were the most important points in the first debate for you? What do you think should have been covered that was not?


It is not possible from the debate to understand and acknowledge that the 1995 Act was passed with cross party support ( i cannot ascertain the positions of the then minority parties in 1995 ,but participants from those parties should have reflected their previous positions)

There was little or no interrogation of the Petition assertion that information provided to those affected by the 1995 Act was insufficient


[*]What points do you think a second debate should focus on?

That lack of knowledge of the 1995 and/or 2011 acts by a minority of women affected is no cause for financial recompense to all or some of those are affected ( the 2004 survey concluded that 74 % of women were aware of the 1995 change,the petition has been signed by a number equivalent to 5% or less of women affected by the 1995 and 2011 Acts)

There is no clear estimate I can find of the cost of the WASPI "ask" ( all fifties women put in the same "as if " SPA financial position ) but consensus is it is likely over £100 bn.The petition has financial consequences and these should be at the forefront of the debate

The petition does not concern itself itself with women or men born or after 1st January 1960.Discussion of State Retirement Age and associated benefits should consider all those affected by the relevant Acts of Parliament .

That by current guidelines notice given under the 2011 Act was inadequate to those given less than 10 years notice.This should be the focus of the upcoming debate.

That submissions to the Work and Pensions Committee by WASPI ( from their own FOI request) and Paul Lewis ,inter alia,failed to mention that the envelope containing the 17.8million pension forecasts sent out between December 04 and December 06 also contained specific guidance to women to ascertain their retirement age ,including a booklet setting out their pension age ( thanks to Jem16 in her post 30.12.15 for this information)

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/287111/response/708875/attach/4/APF1.pdf


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/automatic_state_pension_forecast

[*]What questions would you ask the Minister following their response to the debate?


As the population of those over 60 and not in receipt of state pension and/or pension credit increases and will continue to increase,are the current state benefits fit for purpose for this demographic ( agreeing that they should be means tested ).

There is very likely a significant( but not exclusive) correlation between those women in genuine financial distress in their pre SPA 60s and those who were ( or remain ) genuinely unaware of the extensions of the state pension age. Is there a case for assistance for those 53/54 born women particularly affected by the 2011 Act ?

Kattaddorra

Quoting only parts of my posts out of context isn't very fair! Sadly some men are delighted at the struggles of women alone who are affected by the age rise. They forget that the reversal of the 2011 accelerated age rise would benefit men as well as women, men up to a year and women up to 18 months Surely that's not too much to ask for! Equality came too late for the women born 1953/1954 and they are the ones bearing the heaviest burden of the unfair 2011 age rise.

UKParliament

Hi Everyone,

Many thanks for all the replies so far. They will be very informative for the Petitions Committee.

I just wanted to clarify what was meant by the last question in the original post

'What questions would you ask the Minister following their response to the debate?'

This was in reference to the Minister's response in the first debate. Here's the direct link to the response.

SixtiesVintage

What were the most important points in the first debate for you?
Steve Webb admitted that the 2011 escalation had been a bad decision and he had been badly briefed.
FOI requests confirmed that information had not been sent out to affected women.
EU law allows for different state pension ages. Transitional arrangements have been put in place in the Netherlands and Italy.
There will be ten years notice of future pension changes.

What do you think should have been covered that was not?
DWP report 2004 showed 'cause for concern......not reaching group of individuals who need to be informed the most'. Not that 73% knew as stated by Shailesh Vara.
AgeUK report 2011 entitled Not Enough Time
FOI requests re letters sent out and returned were refused by DWP.

What points do you think a second debate should focus on?
DWP research report 2004 Public Awareness of State Pension age equalisation - 'only 43% of all women who will be affected ...were able to identify....age as being 65 years...' This low figure provides cause for concern and shows........information .....not reaching the group of individuals who need it most'.

AgeUK report 2011 Not Enough Time - the Bill does not allow those affected enough time to plan for the changes.......also in breach of the Coalition Agreement ....rise to 66 ....not be sooner than ....2020 for women.

FOI requests re information sent out and refusal of FOI requests from Paul Lewis Money.

EU law does not require equalisation, as confirmed by Barbara Keeley, and the Netherlands and Italy do have transitional arrangements in place for women.

What questions would you ask the Minister following their response to the debate?
When questioned by Barbara Keeley on other EU countries' approach to equalisation why did Shailesh Vara say 'We are bound by EU law', but when David Cameron was was questioned about what other EU countries do by Barbara Keeley (PMQ 13 Jan) he said 'What other European countries do is a matter for them. We have the ability to make sovereign decisions on this issue, and that is entirely right.'

Why did Shailesh Vara say '.....research carried out in 2004 by the Department for Work and Pensions found that 73% of people aged 45 to 54 were aware of the changes to women’s state pension age.' The report said 'only 43% of all women who will be affected ...were able to identify....age as being 65 years'.

Daniel54

As SixtiesVintage is a new user and cannot post links ,herewith a link to the 2004 DWP report referred to:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130314010347/http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd5/rports2003-2004/rrep221.pdf

On Page 11 there is split of knowledge by women of SPA change by age.The average of 43% is dragged down by low awareness in the youngest age group ( 16-24) who will of course be affected by the 1995 ( and now 2011) Acts

In the age group 45-54 ,which are those most affected by the transitional arrangements which are the subject of the petition,the awareness rate was 73% as correctly referenced by Shaliesh Vara

buggy_boy

How about as part of the campaign when the womens pension age goes up to inline with mens that the mens pension age reduces by 5yrs for the next 75yrs to even out the inequality of the last 75yrs...

atush

During the last 75 years, women were not given pensions by companies as 'they didnt need it their husbands would provide'. And then there was the married womens stamp.

Then there is equal pay for equal work.

Then there is the current effect with car insurance that women now pay more, to make up for poor driving choices by younger men.

So nothing really to equalize for.

Both men and women have been victims of inequality. Its a wash.

buggy_boy

Thats rubbish, most companies have offered pensions to both men and women. Agh yes the womens stamp, the option to pay lower NI not afforded to men...

We now have equal pay for equal work, in the past it was not equal because more women went off and had babies etc, now of course colleagues have to pick up the extra work load, not that im saying equal pay for equal work is not the right thing to do but thankfully it has been addressed by men being allowed to take maternity leave, my point is its not just one sided. BTW if your a man being paid less than other men for doing the same work there is nothing you can do about it....

Agh yes the old penis tax, you could be a really good driver but because you are male you used to pay more, there is a difference between genetic differences like lifespan and things that are in your control but you are singled out because of a difference even if it is not relevant to you individually... This is called discrimination..

I agree Men and Women have been victims of inequality but this "campaign" is trying to prolong an inequality which is wrong.

MoneyWorry

I worked within the NHS (salaries and wages) for a short time during 1977. The occupational pension scheme was available to both men and women at that time. Unfortunately most women either refused to join or cashed in the pension if they left after a couple of years.


I would like to see the Minister look at employment problems after 60 and people's attitudes to what constitutes old age. This will become more crucial as life expectancy and SPA rises.

SallyG

Figgerty wrote:
"DOB 13.12.1952 already receiving state pension from 06 Sept 2015
DOB 15.12.1953 future state pension age 06 March 2019

Please check the timetable below to verify the details.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/310231/spa-timetable.pdf "