Time off work for surgical abortion.

DepositSaver

Elective surgery doesn't necessarily mean someone has chosen to have surgery, it just means that the decision to admit for surgery, and the date of the admission are separated in time i.e. the surgery is planned in advance.

The majority of procedures in the NHS are elective, and are treatment for something - cataracts, mastectomy, hip/other joint replacement, hernia repair, gall bladder removal could all be done as elective surgery. The patient doesn't choose to have them in the same way as say cosmetic surgery, they need to have them to treat what's wrong with them, they just don't need it immediately.

My employer (an NHS Trust) classes emergency or elective admissions/surgery as sickness, but cosmetic surgery or similar requires annual leave to be taken.

sangie595

DepositSaver wrote: »

Elective surgery doesn't necessarily mean someone has chosen to have surgery, it just means that the decision to admit for surgery, and the date of the admission are separated in time i.e. the surgery is planned in advance.

The majority of procedures in the NHS are elective, and are treatment for something - cataracts, mastectomy, hip/other joint replacement, hernia repair, gall bladder removal could all be done as elective surgery. The patient doesn't choose to have them in the same way as say cosmetic surgery, they need to have them to treat what's wrong with them, they just don't need it immediately.

My employer (an NHS Trust) classes emergency or elective admissions/surgery as sickness, but cosmetic surgery or similar requires annual leave to be taken.

An NHS employer may have very different ideas about sickness than other employers. Many do not consider surgery to be sickness at all, although the recovery period may be if someone is unable to work as a result.

But the fact is that the OP is having surgery for purely personal reasons as a matter of personal choice. They do not need a "repair" or a "fix". Their comments about possible health conditions are entirely irrelevant - neither is the reason why they say they wish to have an abortion. On that basis, there is no difference between what they want and cosmetic surgery - it is purely a personal choice. If it later becomes a health choice, then that is a different matter - but right now it is not.

And to be clear, I am not saying this based on any personal opinions about abortion - I am in favour of abortion being available. I am also in favour of a woman's right to choose AND not to choose; and to make sensible decisions and take precautions so that she need do neither.

However, it is simply not a "sickness" to want an abortion. It is a choice. It is therefore nothing like gall bladder removal or joint replacement.

duchy

sangie595 wrote: »

But the fact is that the OP is having surgery for purely personal reasons as a matter of personal choice. They do not need a "repair" or a "fix". Their comments about possible health conditions are entirely irrelevant - neither is the reason why they say they wish to have an abortion. On that basis, there is no difference between what they want and cosmetic surgery - it is purely a personal choice. If it later becomes a health choice, then that is a different matter - but right now it is not.

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If we had abortion on demand then this might have some merit but our laws are clear- Abortion is performed if the life of the child or mother would be compromised if the abortion is not performed.

Of course the reality is the reasons are so broad that it may as well be on demand - however legally it still needs the agreement of two doctors that in their opinion it would be more beneficial for the physical or mental health of mother or baby to abort. Realistically if a doctor is recommending a surgical procedure then any employer trying to claim an abortion is different to other procedures like a hip or knee replacement would legally be on very thin ice.

FBaby

The point that DepositSaver is making is that the word 'elective' referring to medical treatment for the purpose of deciding if an employee should be entitled to sick days is not appropriate as the word as related to a procedure doesn't mean choice, therefore easier to refer to it as a procedure of choice.

I think it is a grey area anyway because you could argue if the procedure is offered by the NHS, it is considered necessary as otherwise, it wouldn't fund. Of course, there are a number of NHS procedure where this could be debated from a moral point of view, ie. should a male be entitled to time off sick for a vasectomy (funded by the NHS).

A colleague of mine decided to have dental implants fitted privately. Her manager, HR and her came up with a personal agreement as to what time off sick she could take and not, which I think was that she could take the days where intervention took place, but not the days to recover, but I think that was very generous of the employer to even agree to this.

GwylimT

suki1964 wrote: »

Erm, surely all you need to do is say "elective surgery' and take two days sick

Why do you need to make a deal out of aborting?


( I don't mean to offend the anti abortionist by sounding flippant )but end of the day,employers do not have to know the ins and outs of why you are in hospital

Make your plans, the hospital/clinic will give you a fit note to cover work

They can however refuse to fund the sick days if you refuse to take a copy of your hospital appointment letter.

Intheattic

I'm confused. If it could be a 'possible' ectopic pregnancy who said that? If it was a doctor/midwife etc then why are you not in A&E or at least an emergency scan to find out for sure?

Also, anaemia is something that occurs in pregnancy anyway but is treated with iron.

If the clinic you went to suspected an ectopic pregnancy, you would have had an answer to that within 24 hours at least! Why don't you know whether its an ectopic pregnancy or not?

FBaby

If it could be a 'possible' ectopic pregnancy who said that? If it was a doctor/midwife etc then why are you not in A&E or at least an emergency scan to find out for sure?

You don't always know for sure. It can't always be seen in the scan and would normally be monitored on the basis of blood levels taken every 2 days. If the levels go down, then it is assumed that the ectopic pregnancy is resolving itself as a natural miscariage. If levels go up, they monitor via scan up to a point by which they decide if they can't see anything in the uterus that the pregnancy is ectopic and they administer medical treatment.

OP says she has been going to a number of appointments already, so under medical care.

t0rt0ise

tomtontom wrote: »

You cannot compare an elective abortion to an appendix removal - one is through choice, the other through necessity.

OP your post doesn't make much sense. Speak to a doctor or your midwife about your reasons for ending your pregnancy. If the abortion is clinically necessary then you'll be covered by the sickness absence policy, if it is through personal choice then you should be taking annual leave.

There is no such thing as abortion on demand in this country, therefore it is by definition not a personal choice. It has to be a medical necessity.

suki1964

GwylimT wrote: »

They can however refuse to fund the sick days if you refuse to take a copy of your hospital appointment letter.

True, but it doesn't say come on in for an abortion, it usually says to come in for your procedure - which could be anything

A patient has the right to confidentiality and hospitals are aware letters have to be shown to employers and may also be seen by others

Torry_Quine

FBaby wrote: »

You don't always know for sure. It can't always be seen in the scan and would normally be monitored on the basis of blood levels taken every 2 days. If the levels go down, then it is assumed that the ectopic pregnancy is resolving itself as a natural miscariage. If levels go up, they monitor via scan up to a point by which they decide if they can't see anything in:j the uterus that the pregnancy is ectopic and they administer medical treatment.

OP says she has been going to a number of appointments already, so under medical care.

If it is an ectopic pregnancy then it isn't called an abortion anyway. Most likely if surgery is required then it is the removal of a fallopian tube.