PCN Issued by Parking Eye - Barnet Hospital

RH5901

I'm completely disgusted by what I have had to find out about, not only PE, but the whole "industry", level of abuse by PPC's and the extent of the problem!

But this post will be an on-going one, after receiving a PCN from Parking Eye during a visit on the 6th Jan 2016.

I have today, phoned Barnet Hospital's PALS, received verbal confirmation that they "receive a lot of complaints about parking charge notices" and was immediately asked (by a very kind lady at the other end) to scan and email details to her - which I am about to do. I have not - as of yet - gone throught the on-line Appeals process with Parking Eye.

Basic summary; Visiting my mum in Northampton for the New Year. 20 minutes before I was due to leave, she received a call from one of the consultants caring for my 98 year old grandmother, suggesting that we get there as soon as possible!!! We dropped everything and drove the +/- 65 miles to Barnet hopspital.

Upon arriving at the hospital, the car park layout had been altered by the use of huge concrete barriers which had been placed across junctions, blocking in areas and creating additional parking spaces over road markings such as direction arrows, yellow cross hatching zones and t-junctions. All very messy and confusing.

I eventually, after driving around 4 times, noticed how to get to an official parking space which was empty. I negotiated the concrete barriers and confusing & conflicting road markings and parked. They must have been very quick to take a picture as my car's break lights are clearly lit!

Parking (beedy) Eye caught my car parked at 14:51 hrs and 56 seconds. I bought a parking ticket at 14:55 hrs (machine receipt doesn't display seconds!)

Grandmother situation had improved by the time we arrived - which was an obvious huge relief!! Knowing my £2.00 hour was almost up, I left mum and nan to buy another ticket. I had to buy (and wait for...) a coffee to get change for the machine.

At 16:01 hrs (no seconds again on the receipt) I paid for another hour parking.

The customary "chatting with nurses, doctors, consultants, etc... continued regarding my nan's condition and health and then it was time to leave, reassured that nan was ok.

The purchase of the 2nd parking ticket, which gave us an hour, meant that our time ran out at 17:01 hrs. The photo timestamp on the PCN shows the break lights were clearly lit at 17:04 hrs and 3 seconds.

Ignoring the approximate 3 minutes from parking to buying the first ticket, I have been "invoiced" for £100.00 by Parking Eye - discounted to £60.00 if I pay within 14 days OF THE DATE ISSUED, (which BTW, isn't 14 days from when I received the PCN!!!) all because of a 9 minute assumed/alleged overstay in the car park.

The PCN received is undoubtedly a standard templated document that PE send out. And as such, I've yet to come across any other posts/threads etc... in this forum relating to one sentence that stands out for me;

"By not gaining the appropriate permit/authorisation, in accordance with the terms and conditions set out in the signage, the Parking Charge is now payable to ParkingEye Ltd. (as the Creditor)."

I have 2 parking receipts. Therefore I did gain the appropriate authorisation - surely!?!

I will update this thread as the situation evolves.

Wish me luck peeps!! :-/

Redx

yes you probably did, so keep any receipts safe and hope that PALS resolve it

also read clause #13 of the BPA CoP which talks about GRACE PERIODS, which would be up to 10 minutes to park and read the signs and get a ticket, plus 11 minutes or more to leave the site

PE monitor time on site, not parking time, so bear that in mind

when making any appeal, no giving away the DRIVER, so no sentences saying "I drove in , I parked at , I bought a ticket at" etc

catfunt

I take it you have read the NEWBIES thread - if not, then please do so.

In addition to engaging with PALS at the hospital, you should appeal to PE using the standard template in the NEWBIES thread. You could add some words about the grace period not being exceeded.

Do the two together - you don't want to completely rely on PALS to sort this out. If you do this and they don't do the business, you risk missing appeal deadlines.

If PE reject your appeal, you can then appeal to POPLA and there are several grounds that you appeal on there, if it comes to that. Once you have your POPLA code, come back on here and put a draft together and post it on this thread for critique/tweaking.

Important : You are appealing as Keeper. Do not tell PE who was driving, keep eveything in the third person - no "me", "myself" or "I" - but " The Driver"

Don't take your eyes off the appeal deadlines!

RH5901

At the risk of being over zealous, having read the speedy and much appreciated replies by RedX and catfunt, as well as re-reading the sticky posts etc..., in the hope that a 2nd pair of eyes wouldn't hurt, this is my email to Barnet hospitals PALS dept. It has NOT YET been sent.

I will be appealing through ParkingEye's on-line appeal process so the stuffing will be removed from the following email and just kept to a concise length.

Also, I have downloaded the MSE template appeal document and would question ... I have seen it suggested to complain/appeal at the same time to both the PPC and the land owner but also seen it advised to just appeal to the PPC and only on-line - not by post. Any takers on this??

And is the MSE template appeal document in need of being reviewed? The Mitigating Circumstances, first person used and therefore admitting "you" were the driver. Also, just noticed, "The Charge is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable". I might be confused but seem to remember reading that this reason is now no longer acceptable by courts. But can it still be used against BPA members in a claim??

Anyway, anything will obviously be greatly appreciated!!! Here goes!


Dear [nice PALS lady]

Thank you for your time earlier today when I called regarding the grossly unfair and totally inappropriate Parking Charge Notice, or “Invoice” as it is often referred to in these cases, issued to the keeper of the vehicle in question by ParkingEye Ltd. for a paid stay at Barnet Hospital on the 6th January 2016.

Basic summary;

A phone call from one of the attending consultants regarding the sudden deterioration of Mrs Grandmother's health was received at lunchtime on the 6th January 2016. Fearing the worst, relatives were advised to “get here as soon as possible” and to “drive safely” as it was noted by the consultant that relatives had to come from Northampton; a journey of approximately 65 miles.

Upon arriving at the hospital, the driver noticed that the car park layout had been curiously altered by the use of huge concrete barriers which had been placed across junctions, therefore altering the marked flow of traffic, blocking in areas and creating additional parking spaces over road markings such as direction arrows, yellow cross hatching zones and T-junctions. All very messy and confusing.

At one point, 2 parking spaces were noticed by the driver as being vacant but, upon entering the area in which they were seen, the driver noticed that area was clearly sign posted for Staff only and so searching for an appropriate parking space continued elsewhere in the car park.

Eventually, after driving around 4 times, the driver realised how to navigate the altered car park layout to a designated parking space which was empty. No other signs were noticed in the immediate area indicating further parking restrictions. Negotiating the concrete barriers and conflicting road markings, the vehicle was finally parked.

ParkingEye Ltd. seem to have been very quick to take a picture of the vehicle as its side lights are clearly lit in the photograph within the PCN.

ParkingEye Ltd. photographed the parked vehicle at 14:51 hrs and 56 seconds. A parking ticket was purchased at 14:55 hrs (machine receipt doesn't display seconds!)

Mrs Grandmother's situation had improved slightly by the time relatives arrived - which was an understandable relief!! Upon realising the first hour parking was about to expire and despite being involved in discussions with medical staff, one relative left the meeting in order to purchase another ticket for a further 1-hour period.

The customary "chatting with nurses, doctors, consultants, etc…” continued with regards to Mrs Grandmother's condition and health, including the discussion of an “End of Life” care plan. Being anxious that the second 1-hour parking period was coming to an end, relatives then, sadly, had to leave but we were reassured that her condition was “stable” for the time being.

The purchase of the 2nd parking ticket, which gave a further hour parking, meant that the time expired at 17:01 hrs. The timestamp on the PCN departure photograph shows the vehicle’s side lights were clearly lit at 17:04 hrs and 3 seconds.

ParkingEye Ltd. has sent an "invoice" in the form of a PCN to the vehicle’s registered keeper to the value of £100.00 which, curiously, would be discounted to a value of £60.00 if paid within 14 days of the date issued; 5 days of which had already passed before having received the PCN in the post.

The total time recorded by ParkingEye Ltd. for the vehicle being parked is 2 hours and 12 minutes. This does not take into account the time necessary between parking and purchasing a ticket, nor does it make any allowance from the expiry of a ticket to time of departure.

This would appear to be in clear breach of article “13.4 Grace Periods” of the “British Parking Association Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice” (BPA CoP) version 6 – October 2015, and as such, request that this PCN be cancelled with immediate effect.

The PCN and the two parking receipts are attached to this email as per your request.

It is completely understandable the need for the Royal Free NHS Trust to keep its inadequate number of parking spaces at Barnet Hospital free from abusers.

However, in this case, there is clear proof of purchase of appropriate permits, as per both receipts, and the BPA CoP Grace Period guidelines have not been exceeded by the driver of the vehicle, or indeed adhered to by ParkingEye Ltd.

There was no intention to abuse the parking system at Barnet Hospital which, sadly and possibly misguidedly, has been contracted to ParkingEye Ltd. whos modus operandi has been questioned over many years and at many levels.

I trust this matter will be dealt with swiftly and I look forward to receiving confirmation of cancellation by return.

Yours sincerely,



Any thoughts or critique ?? Thank you in advance.

R.

Coupon-mad

Also, I have downloaded the MSE template appeal document and would question...is the MSE template appeal document in need of being reviewed? The Mitigating Circumstances, first person used and therefore admitting "you" were the driver. Also, just noticed,

Eeeek eeeek, throw away the MSE article version of an appeal. It is dreadful. We've told them until we are blue in the face.

The appeal template for this stage is in the NEWBIES sticky thread near the top of this forum.

When you complain to Barnet Hospital Trust Complaints (Peter someone?) they'll likely tell you to get lost. But do it anyway.

pappa_golf

This would appear to be in clear breach of article “13.4 Grace Periods” of the “British Parking Association Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice” (BPA CoP) version 6 – October 2015, and as such, request that this PCN be cancelled with immediate effect

don,t baffle the woman quoting bits of law , just say you were genuine and that PE are !!!!!!!s

RH5901

Dear Coupon-mad

Very quickly, as you've been so helpful. Your template on-line appeal letter to a BPA PPC doesn't allow for much leeway; I have got 2 receipts from paid parking as proof. Is it worth sending with the appeal, or just waiting for PPC to either a) roll over and cancell PCN or b) issue a POPLA code straight away in their reply??

Thanks again :-)

Richard.

Coupon-mad

Yes Richard, you should attach the proof of paid parking to ParkingEye's appeal webpage and you could add careful wording that 'the driver' did pay and display with 2 payments made and it seems the grace period required under the BPA Code of Practice was not adhered to because the difference is merely xx minutes which is simply the 'driving in/out and finding a space' time by any stretch of the imagination. The car was not parked beyond paid-for time at all. As such, as the registered keeper you have complained to the Hospital Trust and anticipate cancellation.

The reason I don't suggest the above sort of appeal normally as a template is because people go and blab about who was driving by adding 'here is my P&D ticket' or something daft like that!

So I keep it simple in the advice thread but there's no reason why a carefully-written few lines can't be added by the keeper, talking about 'the driver' in the third person and 'the car', the P&D ticket (NOT MY) or use words like 'the occupants of the vehicle are adamant that...'.

RH5901

Many thanks for your advice, once again!

As an FYI to others who may find this useful, by the angle of the PCN photos and the bay in which the car was parked, it would appear that ParkingEye has positioned their cameras in places other than the entrance/exit to Barnett Hopsital car park, and therefore may have more than one!!!

One thing I do "seem" to remember (perhaps someone closer to Barnett Hospital than I am could clarify this??? -me = north Wales!) is that you do not have to "Pay & Display" - this is why the receipts for parking were put in a pocket and not thrown away!

Again, thank you for your time and help. Fingers crossed!! ;-)

R.

RH5901

Today I received a phone call from the nice lady from PALS at Barnet Hospital saying that the PCN had been cancelled and that I would not be hearing anything further from Parking Eye :-D

I can't be sure which appeal brought the success; the on-line appeal to ParkingEye Ltd or the email sent to Barnet PALS who may have subsequently instructed ParkingEye to drop the PCN.

Either way, I'm so thankful to those here who have given their time to help.

As something in way of return, I did a little more digging; on Barnet Hospital web site, although there is mention of the ANPR camera system, and parking charges etc... nothing appears regarding ParkingEye Ltd, nor the full terms and conditions etc...

A lot more digging and I came up with a note from a Barnet London Borough meeting on the 9th Feb 2015. Attached is a PDF with planned changes to the car park. Don't park in the purple area!!!

And I'm not allowed to post with links :-( or even insert an image :-(( Anyone who wants the PDF, just get in touch!

Thank you all once again!

pappa_golf

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3415159/Sick-great-grandmother-83-hit-100-hospital-car-park-fine-visited-dying-brother-failing-hand-blue-badge-reception.html




seem that PE are causing annoyance to people (and PALS)