Sorting out a widow's affairs

konark

Technically the threshold is £5k but if you have managed to access the money in all the accounts without needing to show probate then you don't need it now.

Money that was in the joint account does not form part of the estate and is not 'up for grabs' by the LA/DWP/whoever, only the money held in the husband's sole name minus funeral expenses and other debts. It would be best not to mix the two. You may come under pressure from LA to pay them some money from the joint account, resist this as they can't touch it.

There is a danger that the estate may be 'technically' insolvent, i.e the LA demand more money back in overpayments than the husband's estate is left with. In this case I think it would be best to back off, although they may deem you have intermeddled by messing with the accounts . Leave everything alone (except the joint account which is now the wife's) and just pay for the funeral. Take the funeral bill to bank and get them to pay funeral director direct from the account in husband's sole name. Then do nothing. If the LA want the money they can pay for administration.

confusED

Hi, I'm afraid under the bank's guidance we have closed his sole account and the money has been moved into the joint account already! We of course can show what the sole account held in it at closure and thus his estate value to the penny at that point. Further still she has part paid for the funeral out of the joint account already And of course the remainder will have to come from the joint account because he no longer has an account in his sole name.

confusED

I would guess that the LA would have a call on all of his estate due to the amount of HB and the duration of the claim. This would make the estate insolvent. But as stated the money of his estate is unfortunately now in the joint account albeit now with his name removed.

Yorkshireman99

confusED wrote: »

Me again. Why arent these things clear. I've read three things about probate. One says only for greater that 250k or summat. One earlier saying it's up to the bank. And one now saying 5k!!

What a mess. I will talk to my wife about this tomorrow. We will have to see about filling in the probate forms.

Don't apply got letters of administration unless and until you know if the estate is insolvent. If you do you could be liable for the debts. As I said before do NOTHING more with the estate assets until you have established what the council want to claim.

Yorkshireman99

confusED wrote: »

Hi, I'm afraid under the bank's guidance we have closed his sole account and the money has been moved into the joint account already! We of course can show what the sole account held in it at closure and thus his estate value to the penny at that point. Further still she has part paid for the funeral out of the joint account already And of course the remainder will have to come from the joint account because he no longer has an account in his sole name.

The funeral expenses take first priority so paying that is OK.

Yorkshireman99

konark wrote: »

Technically the threshold is £5k but if you have managed to access the money in all the accounts without needing to show probate then you don't need it now.

Money that was in the joint account does not form part of the estate and is not 'up for grabs' by the LA/DWP/whoever, only the money held in the husband's sole name minus funeral expenses and other debts. It would be best not to mix the two. You may come under pressure from LA to pay them some money from the joint account, resist this as they can't touch it.

There is a danger that the estate may be 'technically' insolvent, i.e the LA demand more money back in overpayments than the husband's estate is left with. In this case I think it would be best to back off, although they may deem you have intermeddled by messing with the accounts . Leave everything alone (except the joint account which is now the wife's) and just pay for the funeral. Take the funeral bill to bank and get them to pay funeral director direct from the account in husband's sole name. Then do nothing. If the LA want the money they can pay for administration.

The money that was in the sole name of FIL still remains part of the estate. The bank had no legal authority to transfer it. The bank probably got an indemnity to transfer the funds.

Yorkshireman99

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

Things are not clear because the rules are not absolute. If you have up to £30k in Barclays you can access it without the need to go to probate, but some institutions will not release very small sums without probate. In your case none of the banks have required you too apply for it so you already have all the assets.

If there were no benefit issues here I would say don't bother because no one is ever going to challeng it, but you need to do things by the book here, so the first step is to get some legal advice on how to proceed.

The law is quite clear! The banks realise the amount is low and often ignore it. They cover their backs by getting an indemnity from who revives the money. The system is a complete mess traps the unwary and allows the unscrupulous to steal money though not the latter in this case.

Yorkshireman99

confusED wrote: »

Me again. Why arent these things clear. I've read three things about probate. One says only for greater that 250k or summat. One earlier saying it's up to the bank. And one now saying 5k!!

What a mess. I will talk to my wife about this tomorrow. We will have to see about filling in the probate forms.

The whole system is a complete shambles. The lower limit is £5K and £250 K is where HMR&C are involved.

confusED

You're up late!
I know it is being said that the joint account is not in his estate but the HB went into there. I would have thought the LA could argue this constitutes their money.

Yorkshireman99

confusED wrote: »

You're up late!
I know it is being said that the joint account is not in his estate but the HB went into there. I would have thought the LA could argue this constitutes their money.

Insomnia!. The crucial priority is to establish what they are going to claim. I would suggest moving the amount that was in sole accounts to a separate executors account but this appears to be a problem these days so just leave it for the time being. Normally joint accounts don't form part of the estate of the deceased unless the surviving account holder has been complicit which is not the case here. I realize that you have other priorities like finding your MIL other accommodation but the HB problem is top of the list.