Sorting out a widow's affairs

confusED

I'd like to thank everybody who has given help on the thread. I was near breakdown two days ago. The facts are still stark but the ways forward seem more tangible thanks to you guys.

Cheers Ed

Yorkshireman99

confusED wrote: »

Hi, no will. We have told all the banks now and currently all accounts are now in her name. As I said originally the HB wasin his name and has been stopped. It was paid however into a joint account which sits at 27k. He had 17k in his name elsewhere but it has now been put into the joint account too.

I personally dont have a problem with them having back the savings - the issue is that she cant then afford to live there anyway as his pension has ended.. The landlord is on a path to ever increasing rent and without savings to top it up she cant live there. I dont know anything about pension credit but I went on a calculator for it and it looked like she'd get no help but I could be wrong.

If there were accounts in his sole name they should not have been changed to hers as they form part of the estate. As he died intestate letters of administration will need to be obtained. However if the estate is insolvent it would be best left alone. You need to be very careful you don't end up liable as you have what is known as "intermeddled " in the estate. I realize this is extraordinarily difficult for you but you need professional advice before the mess gets worse.

confusED

Hi,
We went to the bank not knowing if there was anything in there. There was 16k. We told them there was no will and no probate and they said we could close the account or transfer it to the widow. If this is wrong why did the bank do this?

I have just read up on Grant of Representation and it seems to uphold what i believed which is if small amounts its up to the bank if they need one or not. There is no property involved and the sum is "small". The bank were happy to transfer it into the joint account. The other bank removed him from the joint account.

I have no intention to try to hide the money just because it now sits in the old joint account and will pass it to whoever if it is due back.

Yorkshireman99

confusED wrote: »

Hi,
We went to the bank not knowing if there was anything in there. There was 16k. We told them there was no will and no probate and they said we could close the account or transfer it to the widow. If this is wrong why did the bank do this?

I have just read up on Grant of Representation and it seems to uphold what i believed which is if small amounts its up to the bank if they need one or not. There is no property involved and the sum is "small". The bank were happy to transfer it into the joint account. The other bank removed him from the joint account.

I have no intention to try to hide the money just because it now sits in the old joint account and will pass it to whoever if it is due back.

Don't rely on the bank to get it right! The legal position is that the money in sole accounts belongs to the estate and nobody else has any right to that money if it is above the probate limit or there are debts to be paid. You have to decide very soon if you are going to declare the over payment. By "intermeddling" in the estate you may end up being liable for the debts. Sorry if this sounds harsh but I am trying to help you avoid making a dreadful situation worse.

confusED

I thank you for your help.
The total estate is 41k less funeral so surely no probate. The only debt is the overpayment. And the money hasn't gone anywhere, it's all now in the account declared to HB originally. My role as I have interpretted if for myself is to work out what accounts he had, tell the banks and then tell the widow. Joint bank accounts have removed his name and the one sole account has been closed and moved to the original joint account. Records of what existed in what account and where it now are available as the account closure generated a letter from the bank.

I think she will not want to go forward in the same way her husband did and I certainly wont be involved in any application which is false.

I am then going to offer my advise which is to come clean in light of what I've seen and discussed here.

Yorkshireman99

confusED wrote: »

I thank you for your help.
The total estate is 41k less funeral so surely no probate. The only debt is the overpayment. And the money hasn't gone anywhere, it's all now in the account declared to HB originally. My role as I have interpretted if for myself is to work out what accounts he had, tell the banks and then tell the widow. Joint bank accounts have removed his name and the one sole account has been closed and moved to the original joint account. Records of what existed in what account and where it now are available as the account closure generated a letter from the bank.

I think she will not want to go forward in the same way her husband did and I certainly wont be involved in any application which is false.

I am then going to offer my advise which is to come clean in light of what I've seen and discussed here.

Probate is required for an estate of that size. Someone needs to apply for letters of administration. However. It is crucial to establish how big the over payment is. If this is greater than the funds then the estate is insolvent and the standard advice is not to so anything at all regarding administrating. it. By dealing with estate assets you may be guilty of "intermeddling" that potentially has serious consequences. I am well aware you are trying to be open and honest but don't do anything else with the estate assets until you have established the size of the debt and have taken professional legal advice. I realize this is very hard for you and even harder for your MIL but don't dig a bigger hole.

confusED

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

Probate is required for an estate of that size. Someone needs to apply for letters of administration. However. It is crucial to establish how big the over payment is. If this is greater than the funds then the estate is insolvent and the standard advice is not to so anything at all regarding administrating. it. By dealing with estate assets you may be guilty of "intermeddling" that potentially has serious consequences. I am well aware you are trying to be open and honest but don't do anything else with the estate assets until you have established the size of the debt and have taken professional legal advice. I realize this is very hard for you and even harder for your MIL but don't dig a bigger hole.

Sorry and thanks. The estate is actually 16.5k minus funeral. The rest was in a joint account.

Yorkshireman99

In which case you may be able to avoid probate. The advice still stands.

confusED

Me again. Why arent these things clear. I've read three things about probate. One says only for greater that 250k or summat. One earlier saying it's up to the bank. And one now saying 5k!!

What a mess. I will talk to my wife about this tomorrow. We will have to see about filling in the probate forms.

Keep_pedalling

confusED wrote: »

Me again. Why arent these things clear. I've read three things about probate. One says only for greater that 250k or summat. One earlier saying it's up to the bank. And one now saying 5k!!

What a mess. I will talk to my wife about this tomorrow. We will have to see about filling in the probate forms.

Things are not clear because the rules are not absolute. If you have up to £30k in Barclays you can access it without the need to go to probate, but some institutions will not release very small sums without probate. In your case none of the banks have required you too apply for it so you already have all the assets.

If there were no benefit issues here I would say don't bother because no one is ever going to challeng it, but you need to do things by the book here, so the first step is to get some legal advice on how to proceed.