post graduate funding - please help

leobigboy

Hi all, I do hope somebody can help.... My daughter has graduated this year with a psychology & criminology hons degree. She now wants to go on to study law - and plans to be a solicitor.

The route is that she needs to complete the Graduate Dip in Law (GDL) for one year and then the Law Practising Cert (LPC) in the second.

In short, the fees for this are £6,000 for 1st year and £9,000 for second. Added to this there is the cost of her accommodation - approx £7,000 for 2 years and then living expenses (bills, food & books) of approx £6,000 for the 2 years = grand total of £28,000

I have been trying to research how I can assist in finding funding. Firstly we looked at sponsorship - this appears to be available (mainly in London - and we aren't), but most firms make their decision 2 years before the course starts (she starts in 2 weeks!).

Next we looked to banks. Interestingly the HSBC offered her a deferred loan for most of the cost (£25,000) but whilst the repayments don't start until the month after she finishes, she would be charged interest on the full amount for the full period (total interest of more than £10,000) and repayments of nearly £600 per month - How irresponsible of the bank !!!! How is a new legal professional, in her first job, expected to pay this and the original student loan from the SLC and live?!

Acting on advice from this site, I contacted the coop, RBS and Barclays today to enquire about a Career Development Loan, which I understand was set up by gov't to assist, where the Learning & Skills Council pay the interest on a loan of max £8,000 (to the bank) and repayments are deferred until the end of the course. It won't get her the £28,000 she needs but it's a start.... or so I thought. Apparently the Learning & Skills Council will not make a CDL available to her in the first year, but may consider her in the second (because the course is in 2 parts and the first will not get her straight into work). However, having contacted the Learning & Skills Council today, they tell me that they changed their criteria again in Feb 07 and asked all 2700 HE learning providers to re-register with them - so far less than 50 have bothered - and they can't provide support for students on course not registered with the LSC.

So here we are. She has a debt of £12,000 from the first degree. The Gov't does not provide any financial support mechanism for students in her position, banks who can support act irresponsibly - offering loans which are impossible to repay and as a parent the only option I can see to support my daughter (and support the education & development of a much needed trade for this country) is to re-mortgage my house to find £28,000 which I am very unlikely to see the benefits of (as I will probably work myself into an early grave trying to find the money to pay it - whilst of course I support my younger daughter who starts her first degree at the same time as this one starts post-grad).

Anyone got any ideas or advice ? this must be something that others have faced.

Desperately seeking sanity. Thanks

rookfoot_2

My daughter is about to start a Master's at Imperial College and has existing student debts of around £12,000. She has only been offered two thirds of a grant and we are desperate to find funding to make up the difference, plus a little more. The banks she haa approached are next to useless and have little interest - they have failed to send the application forms TWICE and insist it takes 7 working days each time. We really are desperate for any ideas about how to find further funding. I am completely new to this site (and am totally rubbish at this sort of thing) and would really appreciate any help at all. Thanks.

Crispy_Ambulance

The thing to remember here is that with the exception of some teacher training courses, there is no statutory funding for postgraduate degrees. If a student wants to do further postgraduate study, they need to secure some form of funding - usually either a loan or a scholarship/bursary.

Students should think very carefully before applying for postgrad courses if they do not have secure funding in place - unless they have a very strong reason for doing the course (i.e. it will lead to a job) they are potentially acquiring some serious debt for something that may not ever really benefit them.

The courses will still be there in a few years time. If students can't afford to do them now, they may be much better to work for a couple of years and save up. I know this isn't what students want to hear, but there is no point in telling people "It will be OK, the funding will come from somewhere."

Postgrad Law courses in particular are very expensive and there is no point starting it, only to have to drop out halfway through due to lack of funding.

melancholly

i have to echo what crispy said..... self funding postgrad courses is very hard to do. personally, i took a year out and worked and saved lots of money. it was my only real option. depending on the course, you can sometimes have a part time job, but some courses (particularly the law ones) are very intensive and it would be difficult to work and study.

to the OP - i'd get your daughter to defer for a year and apply for training contracts. without wanting to be mean, if this is something she really wanted to do, she shoudl have known about this well in advance of starting the course - i think it's also up to her to create a solution without you remortgaging your house.... most universities have lots of advice for applying to law at the careers service and there certainly used to be a booklet with all available training contracts. if this is her career, she needs to do the legwork and not leave it to you..... it's great that you're helping, but it sounds like you're doing everything for her.... http://www.lawcareers.net/ this website should help with information.

to the second poster - i think a part time/weekend job is the only solution i can see. getting a grant for 2/3 is actually pretty good (it still leaves a lot to pay but is a lot better than many people!). she should not have to pay back her student loan until she is earning, so that can just be ignored for now.

eira

Would the
*OU Law school be of any value?
*there used to be a one year conversion course for people wanting to become solicitors
*what about doing a Legal Executive course at a college a) you can use this to get various temping jobs to keep body and soul together
b) it's another route into the legal profession and the fees are cheaper

Torby

melancholy: to the OP - i'd get your daughter to defer for a year and apply for training contracts

I would doubt if she would have much success in getting a training contract...most law students apply for these a year in advance...competition is REALLY intense....most law firms will shortlist....

with the number of firsts...in Law...you probably won't make the cut if you have a 2:1 or 2:2 or a degree in a non law subject.

My daughter is just about to start her GDL in a fortnights time...she has a BSc...and we're hoping to fund her in this first year....the second year (the LPC) she's hoping for a training contract....either that or its a big loan from the HSBC....

to the OP....mortgage the house?....I know how you feel....

good luck to your daughter in what she does....its a lot of money if there's even a glimmer of failure or dropping out....or at worst/best suppose it depends how you look at it....she gets through and doesn't get a job with the magic circle firms....its an awful lot of debt...for more info you could check out thestudentroom forum

I've searched long and hard over the last 2 months...and unfortunately found nothing....if you're lucky, perhaps you could pass it on?...where does your daughter intend studying by the way?

Voyager2002

leobigboy wrote: »

(and support the education & development of a much needed trade for this country)

You cannot be serious! I never heard of a country that suffered for lack of lawyers. And with all respect, I would prefer that my taxes were spent on training nurses, psychologists, musicians... The fact is, being a qualified and effective lawyer is practically a license to print money. It is not surprising that the "admission fee", the cost of the training, is so high, since this is something that most lawyers can expect to get back within the first few years of their professional lives. It is also not surprising that there are too many people with legal qualifications, and quite a lot of failed lawyers -- there is simply not enough work around to support every graduate who would like to be a lawyer.

Your daughter will need a great deal of determination to succeed as a solicitor. If she has that determination, she WILL find the money, contacts and sponsorship that she needs. And she will find them by herself, not rely on you. If she is not sufficiently determined, she will fail, and any money you put into legal training for her will be mostly wasted. (I say mostly, because even a partial legal qualification can be valuable for a career in business and commerce.) But I certainly do not think that the tax-payer should be putting money into this kind of thing.

melancholly

Torby wrote: »

melancholy: to the OP - i'd get your daughter to defer for a year and apply for training contracts

I would doubt if she would have much success in getting a training contract...most law students apply for these a year in advance...competition is REALLY intense....most law firms will shortlist....

i guess i only have one friend who self funded law school, and know about 15 others who got training contracts, so from my experience it's the best way to do it and although competition is fierce, there are a lot of companies out there who will sponsor you. sometimes you can get partial funding from smaller law firms outside of london.

realistically, getting into a top law firm straight after the law conversion course who hasn't giving you a training contract is unlikely.... so asking for money from smaller, regional firms is a good way to pay for the course and get a guarenteed job at the end. most of the people who ended up a law school did a couple of years working somewhere (anywhere!) after doing non-law degrees and then applied for training contracts/used savings to fund their way through. you don't have to do it straight after an undergrad degree....

i think expecting parents to come up with such a huge amount of money is a little difficult - mine couldn't have paid and i certainly wouldn't have asked as by 21, when i wanted to do a masters (non law btw), i knew it was my job to deal with that.

Torby

voyager2002 ......"You cannot be serious! I never heard of a country that suffered for lack of lawyers. And with all respect, I would prefer that my taxes were spent on training nurses, psychologists, musicians..."

by that do you mean funding all Law students (graduates) or just those that take up valuable places...study law...then don't practice....

just out of curiosity...out of the 15 that got contracts...how many had Law degrees...and roughly....what was the average degree, 1sts 2:1s etc?

melancholly

i think 5/6 went straight into law school after doing law degrees. there were maybe three others who went in straight after uni without law degrees on training contracts. the rest took one or multiple years out after non-law degrees - one changed from medicine, others worked in office jobs first.

it's been joked that they all ended up doing law as they didn't really know what else to do! which may seem harsh, but it definitely was a decision taken whilst working, which meant that they could apply to training contracts and wait for the outcome before quitting their jobs.

as far as degree classes go, i can't honestly remember. i don't think anyone got a 2:2 apart from the law student who self-funded - i think everyone else got 1sts or 2:1s, more 2:1s than 1sts though.

Torby

cheers melancholy...thanks for a quick answer...