Land Registry Transfer

absolutelyjess

We are selling my partner's new build (7 years old) house that he bought off plan from a major development company. The property comprises the house which is freehold and a leasehold garage which is not attached to the house, but is instead under a coachhouse a few metres along the road. My partner always knew that the garage didn't belong to him, and that he paid £1 pa to use it to the man that owned the coachhouse (no one ever asked for the £1pa).

Just before Christmas, our buyer's solicitors sent us an email to say that there is a division of the freehold title between the freehold of the ground floor (garage) and the freehold of the upper floor (coachhouse), confirming that the landlord's of our garage are the developers, and not the owner of the coachhouse who we had previously asked to confirm insurance details etc.

So, the developers get our records from the archives and identify that the freehold of the garage was never transferred to the owner of the coachhouse They have reacted pretty quickly to solve this issue and draw up the transfer and have it signed, sent to the owner of the coachhouse who will then have to send it on to the land registry. They do deny the error was theirs, but we're going to ask whose it was.

So, my questions are:
1. Has anyone else encountered this when they've tried to sell on a new build?
2. When the garage freehold transfer form is sent to the Land Registry, does that constitute the start of the transfer, ie, can we move on with our process once it's in the process of being with the LR? (I assume this as ownership of a house is legal from the date of completion, even if it's not officially registered by the LR until weeks/months later).
3. If not, how long might this kind of thing take?
4. This all began as our buyer's solicitors wanted the owner of the coachhouse to complete an LP1 form which the man (who happens to be an experienced EA) said no, that the LP1 for is for a management company for flats, not a garage under a coachhouse. Does anyone in the know have thoughts on this? Having done some power googling on the matter, I would tend to agree with him.

Any responses from people in the know, particularly the Land Registry rep would be much appreciated!

G_M

when the coach house owners submit the transfer docs to the LR, they (or their solicitors) could contact the LR and tell them there is a related sale being delayed.

LR will then try to speed up the process eg by jumping the queue.

SmlSave

Be aware that there is a long delay at the land registry atm if the garage hasn't been registered before.

bobobski

absolutelyjess wrote: »

Just before Christmas, our buyer's solicitors sent us an email to say that there is a division of the freehold title between the freehold of the ground floor (garage) and the freehold of the upper floor (coachhouse), confirming that the landlord's of our garage are the developers, and not the owner of the coachhouse who we had previously asked to confirm insurance details etc.

This is called a flying freehold and it is highly unusual. It looks like it was done in error (which is quite hard to do) but no one in their right mind would intend to create a flying freehold. However, it looks like it's being sorted out, which is good.

To answer the question, this comes down to priority. In loose terms, you get priority when you lodge an application at the LR, and the only people ahead of you are those who lodged their applications before you. The exception is where somebody has done a "priority search" where effectively they reserve their priority ahead of sending their application to the LR - this is typically done, for example, 3 days before completion of a purchase, as it stops anyone registering anything ahead of you.

It looks like you want the sorting-it-out application to come before yours in terms of priority, so don't do anything at the LR until they send that application in (or reserve priority for it).

The LR is massively backlogged at the moment so it may be a few months before everything is confirmed as registered, but this doesn't affect priority. Just be aware that with a flying freehold it is entirely possible that the LR will raise requisitions, which extend the time from picking up the application to confirming it has been dealt with. I disagree with the user above who said the LR will deal with the earlier application quickly if they know yours is behind it - in my experience, there is no rushing the LR.

Land_Registry

absolutelyjess wrote: »

So, my questions are:
1. Has anyone else encountered this when they've tried to sell on a new build?
2. When the garage freehold transfer form is sent to the Land Registry, does that constitute the start of the transfer, ie, can we move on with our process once it's in the process of being with the LR? (I assume this as ownership of a house is legal from the date of completion, even if it's not officially registered by the LR until weeks/months later).
3. If not, how long might this kind of thing take?
4. This all began as our buyer's solicitors wanted the owner of the coachhouse to complete an LP1 form which the man (who happens to be an experienced EA) said no, that the LP1 for is for a management company for flats, not a garage under a coachhouse. Does anyone in the know have thoughts on this? Having done some power googling on the matter, I would tend to agree with him.

Any responses from people in the know, particularly the Land Registry rep would be much appreciated!

I'll deal with your Qs first and then the issue re delays mentioned by others

1. For others
2. Legal ownership is not confirmed until registration is completed. To all intents and purposes it is as you post as in the vast majority of cases buyers have moved in and settled and are seen as the legal owner as the monies have all changed hands and the deeds have been executed etc. Registration is then completed a few/several weeks down the line.

The key normally, and I suspect this is what bobobski is referring to here re priorities, is that if you have a pending registration in to register X and the property is being sold on as Y then providing the new buyer knows about X and protects their purchase with a priority search then Y can go ahead.

Historically this was invariably the approach taken by sellers/buyers and lenders but in modern times that approach has altered a little and in many cases the next sale, Y, won't complete (in conveyancing terms) until the registration of X has been done.

3. The registration process can vary on timescales with a normal purchase of a whole registered title taking on average 5/6 working days and say a sale of part of a registered title taking on average 40/45 working days. They are averages though and any application is of course reliant on is being submitted correctly.

4. For others

Delays - I am unsure whether the Transfer of the garage you are referring to is of part or whole of a registered title and as mentioned timescales can vary depending on that point.

I suspect it is of 'part' though, namely a Transfer out of the remaining Developer's title. If so then you are looking at a longer period.

However as G_M posts we can consider requests for expedition, speeding the consideration/processing time up, provided the applicant provides us with details of the onward sale and a request to expedite. The applicant in this case will be the 'owner of the coachhouse' it seems or their solicitor. As such I would contact them and ask them to do so.

Once they have submitted the application you can then ask for details of their application, inc a copy of the executed Transfer deed, and then consider proceeding with your own purchase. If that takes you towards completion then your solicitor can advise on whether to submit a priority search sooner rather than later as by that point the seller should have an idea of how long the garage transfer is likely to take.

absolutelyjess

Thanks to everyone. We are in a very short chain - which seemed brilliant when it all began - and our vendor has already moved out of the property we are buying. He is now saying that he may pull out if it takes too long as he is paying rent elsewhere alongside the mortgage on the house.


Land Registry - To clarify what you say in point 2, above, if Mr Coachhouse puts the transfer request to the land registry, as long as our buyer is happy that it will be transferred (when the LR are able to, whether 7 or 40 days), then we can progress to exchange? Is there any form other than the request being received by the LR which can give our buyer formal assurances that the request will be processed?


While Mr Coachhouse is very helpful, I suspect he doesn't want to spend his time on the phone to the LR. If I speak to him to get the reference/code for the request can I ask for it to be expedited?

Land_Registry

absolutelyjess wrote: »

Land Registry - To clarify what you say in point 2, above, if Mr Coachhouse puts the transfer request to the land registry, as long as our buyer is happy that it will be transferred (when the LR are able to, whether 7 or 40 days), then we can progress to exchange? Is there any form other than the request being received by the LR which can give our buyer formal assurances that the request will be processed?

While Mr Coachhouse is very helpful, I suspect he doesn't want to spend his time on the phone to the LR. If I speak to him to get the reference/code for the request can I ask for it to be expedited?

Entirely up to the buyer as to how they proceed. There is no form or formal assurance that the request will be processed. It is very much down to the buyer to check the details submitted for registration and to decide if all in order. They may also seek some sort of undertaking from the seller to cover their risk in proceeding to exchange for example - all things to discuss with your solicitor. I should stress though the 'modern' preference is to wait for the registration to be completed

The preferred contact point is with the applicant. There is nothing to stop you asking for the application to be expedited as each request is treated on merit

NOTE - whilst flying freeholds are rare in some areas of England & Wales they are not that uncommon. And where coachhouse style and similar 'build over an entrance arch' for exampledevelopments are concerned they will very common

absolutelyjess

Thanks for your feedback, all very much appreciated!