Builders extras

littlepinkbiscuits

Apologies if this is in the wrong section of the forum, but I'd really like to know what others on here think of some of the extra costs I have been asked to pay for by my builder, for a job that is not yet finished.

I had a side tandem garage demolished and rebuilt as an office, shower room and utility late last year, and the builder wants to charge me extra for plumbing the sink in, in the utility. As the sink was on the plans and the quote asked me to provide all sanitaryware/cupboards etc, I stupidly assumed plumbing the sink in was included. He's charging me £170 for it and it was plumbed in by the labourer.

He is also charging me £110 for supplying 15 door hinges and 5 door latch inners, which I forgot to pick up(I was to supply the doors and furniture). He is charging £430 for a basic square shower tray, cloaks basin and toilet bowl and concealed cistern, over £150 for the labourer to do a square metre of tiling and £70 for a new outside tap, which they said needed replacing.

The list of electrical extras is huge, and everything appears to be priced up as a separate job, even though it was done on the same day as all the other electrics, £138 to move the cooker switch through the wall to the kitchen and £106 for moving a light fitting 18 inches to centre it in a lounge that was reduced in size.

Added to that he would like the bill paid now, which leaves me with outside work still to be completed(rendering of approx 20 sq metres) and just the snagging retention of £1000 still to pay.

I would appreciate any views on whether this all sounds acceptable, I did ask the builder to keep me informed of the cost of sny extras but he didn't so the bill for an extra £2500 was a bit of a shock.

Is it acceptable for me to ask to see receipts for any of the purchases and whether it is accepted to pay a 100% or more mark up when the builder supplies goods for you.

Le_Kirk

Check your original quote (was it a quote or an estimate) for the items for which he is now claiming as extras. If you can find them, then no issue. If not, then there is a discussion to be had. Looking at the list of extras, one has to ask, what did he/she do that was in the original quote!! Did you agree the extras with the builder as the build progressed? I am sure he/she would not unilaterally decide to go out and buy and install a shower tray for example.

phill99

In terms of whether you should ask him for receipts for the foods supplied: well you could ask him, but don't assume that he will comply. You wouldn't go to Tesco and ask them for receipts of how much they paid for a bag of sugar or a chicken would you? So why do you think you can do it with tradesmen?

If you haven't supplied what you were supposed to, and have asked him to do so, he can charge you what he wants. He is entitled to mark up goods, just the same as any retailer. Part of his mark up will cover his time going to the plumbers merchants and the running costs of his van etc to get there. You could have used your time and your petrol and saved yourself the grief.

You say he didn't inform you of extra costs, but did you ask him how kuch an item would be when you asked him to undertake it? If not, you must bare some responsibility.

If you don't go through a specification that he has provided with a fine tooth comb, don't be surprised if there are loads of extras.

littlepinkbiscuits

Thank you for your replies.

As I thought it looks like I will have to put this down to experience, although the quote was vague with regard to the plumbing, the shower room was plumbed in and the washing machine, but not the sink, and he ended up not having to supply a vent for the tumble dryer.

I assume then that I have to settle up now, in the hope that when he has all my money I rely on trust that he will be back to finish the outside of the building, and clear up after himself.

Thanks anyway

MisterBaxter

phill99 wrote: »

In terms of whether you should ask him for receipts for the foods supplied: well you could ask him, but don't assume that he will comply. You wouldn't go to Tesco and ask them for receipts of how much they paid for a bag of sugar or a chicken would you? So why do you think you can do it with tradesmen?

Not sure that analogy really works; you go to Tesco and the price is clearly shown for the goods, you either choose to buy them or not, their markup is irrelevant; in this instance the builder is buying them and then charging after the fact without any real choice being given to the end customer and no clear understanding of cost up front.

However, what this does highlight is how important it is to ensure that before embarking on a building project the specification is as tight as possible, that everything is properly priced and that in the event of unforeseen items there is a clear pricing mechanism for both materials and labour.

On commercial contracts we would normally include clauses that the client pays for materials at the actual cost paid by the builder (after discount) and then an agreed overhead on top, the builder would have to provide receipts; similarly labour rates for the various trades would be agreed and a percentage for profits and overheads clearly stated. If more domestic contracts followed this approach issues like this would be much more simple to resolve, although I suspect some small builders wouldn't like it much as 'extras' are a good earner for some.

OP - I would say that anything that was shown on the drawings was known and therefore included in the quotation unless specifically excluded by either party; in the absence of any agreement the materials that you were supposed to buy but didn't will have to be paid for at the price being asked by the builder, although you could ask him for receipts and then attempt to negotiate (you may not get very far). Similarly in the absence of any agreement for the pricing of extra work you will end up paying what the builder is asking. Again you could try to negotiate on the grounds that you specifically asked him to quote you for any extras before proceeding and if you didn't specifically instruct the extras then the question has to be asked on what basis did he do them (on a commercial contract if a builder does work without an instruction they may very well find that they have done it at their own risk and expense).

You aren't obliged to pay in full before all works are complete and in fact I would urge you not to; there is little incentive for a builder to return to complete works or deal with minor defects once they have been paid in full for the job (not all builders are like this but there are many who are).

littlepinkbiscuits

Thank you MisterBaxter for your thorough and informative reply, on the basis of your response I think I will broach the subject of the sink as this was clearly shown on the plans.

I think I am more annoyed with the extras because a few things are different with the build than on the plan. The utility is actually not wide enough to fit a washing machine and tumble dryer side by side without removing the skirting board, so we will have to stack them, and the ceilings are higher than expected, due to a mix up with the old garage floor level. We specifically asked for a flush with floor threshold on the back door and due to the garage floor level we have a 4 inch step over to get out of the door.

I understand I have been a bit green with all this and am not used to having building work done so it would not have occurred to me to ask for costs along the way. However, I did specifically ask thd builder to keep me informed of extra costs as we went along, which he didn't and neither did he inform me of things that would cost extra.

Thanks again for the information provided, MisterBaxter, most helpful.

MisterBaxter

Who did your plans/design work? It sounds like there are more issues than just the extra costs being requested by the builder as it would appear that you haven't actually got the finished job you were looking for or had asked for. Apart from the issues you have already mentioned it looks like other mistakes have been made and possibly the person who did the plans originally may have some questions to answer over the quality of their work. It could very well be that the whole pricing job started to go wrong at the design/specification stage. I take it that you did have the necessary regulatory approvals in place.

If the builder did this as a design and build project then I can't really see any reason for any of the extra costs other than the items that you had agreed to purchase but didn't.

Unfortunately all too often the only route to redress after the fact is through the Courts which can be time consuming, costly and may still not yield the results you desire.

macman

You can get a shower tray for £50. Or you could pay £500. £430 will buy you quite a high end one, so I can't believe you didn't specify an item like that more closely.

fezster

Unfortunately, you've been a little naive, but it's understandable with a first building project. There's too many factors which you cannot account for upfront, and locking down the contract at the start is much, much harder than it sounds. What I would say is:

1. Any materials (eg. shower tray) I would query the price of. If no receipt can be produced, then ask where they bought it and what item it is specifically. Any mark up should be clarified by them.

2. The sink is clearly on the plans, so unless excluded specifically, should be included IMO.

3. You've stated at the start that any extras which add as significant cost should be stated clearly. This was a reasonable thing to do. Ideally, you'd have it written in the contract that unless put in writing, no "extras" would be chargeable. However, in practice this isn't always feasible. Sometimes you need to make decisions quickly. From the builders perspective, you asking him to do extra work, may have been interpreted as overriding your original instruction to inform you of costs before doing so. However, some pragmatism here is required on both sides. You need to be satisfied the charges being made are reasonable, and the builder needs to justify the costs.

4. Always hold back a sufficient amount before the work is finished, and allow enough for snagging issues after they have finished. From experience, there is no motivation for a builder to return once they have more money than work remains, especially if they are aggrieved over anything.