I despair of the education system.

Cornucopia

One of the things you lose when you move away from practical problem solving and mental arithmetic is that knack of estimating, guesstimating and knowing whether a problem is easy or hard.

I suspect many people now regard carpet ordering as a hard problem when it really isn't. Mistakes can be expensive, though.

missbiggles1

GwylimT wrote: »

Universities have a passmark of 40%.

But, as I'm sure you know, C isn't the passmark - C is a "good pass". If G (as has been said earlier, no fail grades with GSCE!) was set at 40%, nobody would have a problem with that.

missbiggles1

Cornucopia wrote: »

One of the things you lose when you move away from practical problem solving and mental arithmetic is that knack of estimating, guesstimating and knowing whether a problem is easy or hard.

I suspect many people now regard carpet ordering as a hard problem when it really isn't. Mistakes can be expensive, though.

Which is why you need basic arithmetical skills so that you don't have to rely on the guy whose job it is to sell you as much carpet as possible!

GwylimT

missbiggles1 wrote: »

But, as I'm sure you know, C isn't the passmark - C is a "good pass". If G (as has been said earlier, no fail grades with GSCE!) was set at 40%, nobody would have a problem with that.

C isn't a good pass, it is the bare minimum required to progress into many other areas of education. Clearly for an individual a C could be a good pass, but on the whole it most definitely is not. A 'pass' is C-A* therefore a good pass should be more in the centre eg a B+ which would give you almost the median where UMS is concerned.

missbiggles1

GwylimT wrote: »

C isn't a good pass, it is the bare minimum required to progress into many other areas of education. Clearly for an individual a C could be a good pass, but on the whole it most definitely is not. A 'pass' is C-A* therefore a good pass should be more in the centre eg a B+ which would give you almost the median where UMS is concerned.

I thought you were a teacher? Apologies if I've muddled you with someone else.

There are no fail grades at GCSE (apart from U) as there were with O levels and many colleges and employers refer to grade C as a "good" pass for this very reason. It's perfectly legitimate for someone to say they have 8 GCSEs even if none of them is over a D.

GwylimT

missbiggles1 wrote: »

I thought you were a teacher? Apologies if I've muddled you with someone else.

There are no fail grades at GCSE (apart from U) as there were with O levels and many colleges and employers refer to grade C as a "good" pass for this very reason. It's perfectly legitimate for someone to say they have 8 GCSEs even if none of them is over a D.

I am a teacher, I am yet to hear any college or sixthform to claim that a C is a good pass (which is why many require a B grade in English, maths and science), the same with employers. If a C was a good pass why is it the minimum that is accepted? If it was truly good then surely a D should also be considered okay and therefore acceptable for a wide range of courses and jobs, with anything below being seen as poor.

Someone with my understanding of English structure could gain a C at GCSE English language, that certainly would not be a good pass as I barely know where to stick a comma!

missbiggles1

GwylimT wrote: »

I am a teacher, I am yet to hear any college or sixthform to claim that a C is a good pass (which is why many require a B grade in English, maths and science), the same with employers. If a C was a good pass why is it the minimum that is accepted? If it was truly good then surely a D should also be considered okay and therefore acceptable for a wide range of courses and jobs, with anything below being seen as poor.

Someone with my understanding of English structure could gain a C at GCSE English language, that certainly would not be a good pass as I barely know where to stick a comma!

What a terrible admission from a teacher!

Examples -

"So, what is going to constitute a ‘good’ pass? Well, if you ask that question now, you'd probably get a resounding answer of a grade C. "

http://www.aqa.org.uk/about-us/supporting-education/policy/gcse-and-a-level-changes/structure-of-new-gcses/9-1

"Currently, candidates are expected to achieve a C to attain a "good pass", although grades below this are still officially considered passes."

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-33139954

"The proportion of pupils achieving a “good pass” in their GCSEs could fall by almost a quarter under the new numerical grading system, a leading think tank has warned.
Following Schools Week’s analysis last year that up to 20 per cent of pupils who previously achieved C grades under the existing system would not reach a grade five in the new exams, a report by CentreForum and Education Datalab has predicted the fall could in fact be around 23 per cent."

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/gcse-pass-rate-could-drop-23-under-new-reforms/

"A good GCSE pass mark just got harder, with the DfE raising the bar for performance across the board.
Students will have to get a level five on the new one-to-nine grading scale to be awarded a ‘good pass’. This is comparable to a low B or high C on the old A to U grading system. "

http://www.naht.org.uk/welcome/news-and-media/key-topics/assessment/gcses-good-pass-mark-to-be-raised/

That's an exam board, a teaching union, the BBC, a broadsheet newspaper and a specialist teaching publication who all use the term "a good pass" to mean a grade C.

missbiggles1

GwylimT wrote: »

I am a teacher, I am yet to hear any college or sixthform to claim that a C is a good pass (which is why many require a B grade in English, maths and science), the same with employers. If a C was a good pass why is it the minimum that is accepted? If it was truly good then surely a D should also be considered okay and therefore acceptable for a wide range of courses and jobs, with anything below being seen as poor.

Someone with my understanding of English structure could gain a C at GCSE English language, that certainly would not be a good pass as I barely know where to stick a comma!

A D is acceptable for a wide range of courses, as are the lower grades.

"LEVEL 2

Equivalent to 4 or 5 GCSEs, NVQ Level 2 or BTEC First Diploma
Usually one year and are suitable if you have achieved some GCSEs at grades D–G or have passed a Level 1 qualification."


http://www.shrewsbury.ac.uk/courses/qualifications_explained

I'll stick at one example this time as the entry qualifications for level 2 qualifications in FE are pretty uniform throughout England.

Pennywise

What employers and colleges say are their entry requirements and the reality are completely different in reality. My nephew fell for the "C is a good pass" and "good enough for further education and employers" lie. He thought he'd be OK as he was projected for Cs in his GCSEs so didn't put any extra effort in to do better. In the end, he did get Cs but has had years of being unable to get into any the careers he hoped to, despite meeting their entry requirements. In the end, it's down to competition - if the college or employer have loads of applicants with As and Bs, why should they consider those with Cs.

missbiggles1

Pennywise wrote: »

What employers and colleges say are their entry requirements and the reality are completely different in reality. My nephew fell for the "C is a good pass" and "good enough for further education and employers" lie. He thought he'd be OK as he was projected for Cs in his GCSEs so didn't put any extra effort in to do better. In the end, he did get Cs but has had years of being unable to get into any the careers he hoped to, despite meeting their entry requirements. In the end, it's down to competition - if the college or employer have loads of applicants with As and Bs, why should they consider those with Cs.

Unfortunately, that's true at any level. Many careers or courses require far more than the minimum entry requirement.