I despair of the education system.

wrightk

Nick_C wrote: »

What on earth are you talking about? Lol.

I think he/she is trying to say that it is pathetic when you get corrected by someone, especially a stranger for adding up a particular way that suits you even though the outcome or answer is exactly the same

takman

pendragon_arther wrote: »

So when I went to junior school in the 50's and we were taught the alphabet and the times tables up to 12 by repetition why was it everyone in the school could do them? What's changed in the makeup of the human brain nowadays?

I don't think learning times tables by repetition requires any sort of skill. If you repeat something enough times you will remember it!. But these days i think it's a lot more important to understand how maths works than to memorise times tables.

Malthusian

takman wrote: »

I don't think learning times tables by repetition requires any sort of skill. If you repeat something enough times you will remember it!. But these days i think it's a lot more important to understand how maths works than to memorise times tables.

Memorising something and then recalling it quickly and accurately when needed is a skill.

Understanding "how maths works" is not likely to happen for young children who have not yet developed the ability to think abstractly. So at this age we teach them the times tables, especially as imprinting them at an early age will enable them to do mental arithmetic more quckly when they grow up.

There is zero point in learning the grammar rules of French if you don't know any French words to put in the correct order, and there is zero point in learning how multiplication works if you don't know what 4*8 is.

takman

Malthusian wrote: »

Memorising something and then recalling it quickly and accurately when needed is a skill.

Understanding "how maths works" is not likely to happen for young children who have not yet developed the ability to think abstractly. So at this age we teach them the times tables, especially as imprinting them at an early age will enable them to do mental arithmetic more quckly when they grow up.

There is zero point in learning the grammar rules of French if you don't know any French words to put in the correct order, and there is zero point in learning how multiplication works if you don't know what 4*8 is.

Yes I can understand that for younger children, but a lot of the points people are making on here are trying to suggest that knowing times tables makes you good at math. When I think someone who is 16 and leaving school it is more important they understand how to do math than know their times tables. I know an older person who knows all their times tables from school. But needed help to compare two different electricity tariffs to see which one is best!.

Pennywise

takman wrote: »

I don't think learning times tables by repetition requires any sort of skill. If you repeat something enough times you will remember it!. But these days i think it's a lot more important to understand how maths works than to memorise times tables.

But some things do require simple memory. You really won't get far with Maths at GCSE level without knowing your times tables. Eg factorisation and simplifying/solving equations require you to know your times tables if you are to do them confidently and quickly, as do long division and long multiplication. If you don't know your times tables, you're really going to struggle.

Cornucopia

takman wrote: »

... a lot of the points people are making on here are trying to suggest that knowing times tables makes you good at math.

I don't see anyone saying that.

The question is: is it possible to be proficient at maths, or at mental arithmetic without knowing your times-tables?

I think the answers to that are: mental arithmetic, no - times tables are too much part of the discipline as to be optional.

Maths, more generally, maybe - if someone were home schooled, perhaps. In the mainstream, though, I'd say "no" again - times-tables are part of the early learning of maths basics that enables later techniques to be taught. You cannot do long division easily on paper if you do not know your times-tables well, for example.

Pennywise

I really despair. Just been to a carpet shop to order a small square of vinyl and fitting it for a small storeroom. Shop assistant discounted it to a round £100 plus VAT and then proceeded to get a calculator out to calculate the 20% VAT. For heaven's sake!

takman

Pennywise wrote: »

But some things do require simple memory. You really won't get far with Maths at GCSE level without knowing your times tables. Eg factorisation and simplifying/solving equations require you to know your times tables if you are to do them confidently and quickly, as do long division and long multiplication. If you don't know your times tables, you're really going to struggle.

I got a B in GCSE math and I never really learnt times tables and I can't remember having to do long division or long multiplication. But it may have changed since I did them about 10 years ago.

Now I'm doing an Engineering Foundation Degree which has a lot of math and it's far too complicated to do without a calculator (unless you use log tables which is very slow). It also involves plenty of solving complex equations. But all I need to know is the quadratic equation formula and then I can solve any of them!.

Cornucopia

Pennywise wrote: »

I really despair. Just been to a carpet shop to order a small square of vinyl and fitting it for a small storeroom. Shop assistant discounted it to a round £100 plus VAT and then proceeded to get a calculator out to calculate the 20% VAT. For heaven's sake!

I know that in some shops, it is policy always to use a calculator to do arithmetic.

It would have been interesting to know why s/he was using one.


Going back to English for a moment: I saw a car parts van yesterday and on the back it said:-

We stock all the "brands" you can "trust"

Or in other words, their over-zealous use of quotation marks resulted in exactly the opposite message to the one they were presumably trying to convey. How many people in the company (and its vinyl suppliers) must have seen that and thought nothing of it?

I'm imagining a whole country where a good proportion of people are just getting by in Maths & English, or worse, they are confident that their incomplete or inaccurate knowledge is correct.

daytona0

Pennywise wrote: »

I really despair. Just been to a carpet shop to order a small square of vinyl and fitting it for a small storeroom. Shop assistant discounted it to a round £100 plus VAT and then proceeded to get a calculator out to calculate the 20% VAT. For heaven's sake!

You despair about the fact that someone can use a calculator to accurately work out the solution to a real life problem?