Sacked from job, case for unfair dismissal and references.

esj13

On Monday, after 3 years service I was dismissed from my role after an allegation made against me was found to be upheld and constituted gross misconduct.
I had no idea this would happen, but I thought I would have disciplinary sanctions imposed on me, so leading up to the disciplinary I decided to look for another job. I was given an interview for the day after the hearing.
During the hearing, me and my union rep had the distinct impression that the decision had been made to terminate my employment before the meeting had begun, as the chairperson, simply ignored a lot of what was said in my defence.
Also when we were asked to withdraw and were waiting for a decision to be made, the investigating officer re entered the meeting room, which is a direct breach of the company's disciplinary procedure and therefore he could have breached another section of the procedure that says the investigating officer will not take part in the decision making process. This was witnessed by, me, my union rep and my colleague, who was also there for a hearing.
My union rep said that the investigation was not properly carried out as only myself and my colleague were spoken to, when there 3 other people present when the incident took place. The chair said that she felt there was enough evidence and that she was not interested in anyone elses view. They also said I was responsible as, on the day of the incident, I was the shift leader. A responsibility that is not stipulated in my contract.
Also when we arrived to the meeting a witness was in the room already, which is another breach of procedure which states that a witness cannot enter the meeting before giving their evidence and must withdraw when they have. This so called witness was not even present when the alleged incident took place.
I was told at the end of the meeting I was dismissed from my post with 2 weeks pay in lieu of notice and that the would be happy to re-deploy me in a position with less responsibility, but as the positions are, it would not be possible at that time.
My solicitor has told me that I have a tight case for unfair dismissal.

On to the positive bit now.

I have been offered the new job I interviewed for pending satisfactory DBS check and references.
I would very much like to take this job, but where do I stand with a reference?
As I have not yet been properly dismissed as I have 2 weeks to make my appeal.
Can I ask them to give me a positive reference and offer to drop the appeal?
Or can they not say I have been dismissed until the appeal process is complete?

jobbingmusician

You can ask whatever you like, without prejudice. However, you seem to have the Union on your side - why not ask them rather than us?

I suggest you read up about compromise agreements and talk to your union rep about negotiating one of these with your employer, in return for agreement not to bring an ET.

FBaby

Appeal the decision on the basis of failings in conducting the hearing following incorrect procedure (and quote any part of their policies which you say they didn't follow). Go to the hearing and assuming that they say the initial decision stand, say that you will let it go, but on the condition of a satisfactory reference that doesn't mention the incident or disciplinary.

Most likely they will be happy that you are looking to go and not take the matter further, especially if indeed, you can demonstrate they have made errors in following their own procedures and therefore agree to it. They could however say they only agree on the condition that they are not asked specifically whether you've ever been disciplined in which case, they would have to respond honestly.

Undervalued

Yes, I agree with the two previous responses.

Keep in mind that even if you did take this to a tribunal and win, it has no power to order your former employer to provide a reference.

So the only way you are going to get a decent reference (or probably even a neutral one) is by negotiation.

Ideally any such arrangement should be protected by a formal settlement agreement (formally known as a compromise agreement) although it could be argued that would be more for the employer's protection than yours.

mustang121

In regards to references I believe most companies now only confirm a ex-employee's start and finish dates.

TBagpuss

You have a solicitor- ask them. They are presumably fully aware of the details and are best placed to advise you.

Hwever, I think jobbing musician is right and that your best bet is to as kthem to cinfirm that they will provide a basic refernce confirming your dates of eployment only.

If not, then you may want to consider whether to tell your new employer that you have been dismissed but also that they told you they would be happy to re-employ you in a different role, or even to tell them that you have had issues at work and would thefore ask that they obtain a reference from whereever you worked before that, not from your most recent employer

Undervalued

mustang121 wrote: »

In regards to references I believe most companies now only confirm a ex-employee's start and finish dates.

Some? Certainly.

Most? Debatable.

All? Definitely not.

Even if that is their normal policy it is amazing what can come out in an "informal" telephone chat!

Although not perfect a formal settlement (compromise) agreement should prevent that and would leave the company wide open to a significant claim if they were caught going against the agreement.

pioneer22

Hi,

What was the disciplinary for?
How has your "record" been at the company?
Was a settlement discussed?

I suggest if you can mention going to a tribunal, and try and get a settlement and to include a ref.

Suggest a COT3 if possible.

Employers should be really careful about dismissing someone after 2 years service.

red_eye

pioneer22 wrote: »

Hi,

What was the disciplinary for?
How has your "record" been at the company?
Was a settlement discussed?

I suggest if you can mention going to a tribunal, and try and get a settlement and to include a ref.

Suggest a COT3 if possible.

Employers should be really careful about dismissing someone after 2 years service.

If you don't mind me asking, why should employers be careful dismissing an employee of two years?

ohreally

red_eye wrote: »

If you don't mind me asking, why should employers be careful dismissing an employee of two years?

Potential of hearing at an employment tribunal.

red_eye

ohreally wrote: »

Potential of hearing at an employment tribunal.

So say I was an employee of one year or less would that mean I can't take it to tribunal?

Sorry I'm new to this in my 18 years of employment I have only been at a disaplinery hearing once and I had a union rep with me