Urgent - Use of foil instead of white upvc in triple glazing?

Maikeru

I have been sent the specification below for 6 triple glazed windows I'm getting installed on Friday. I was wondering if any knowledgeable people on here could cast a quick eye of the below as we're forking out £5K on them.

From what I gather the 0.96 u-value on the centre pane is pretty good; however I am a bit concerned about what they are telling me in regards to the frame they have produced - they are doing it in foil instead of white upvc (I understand it's because I need the frames to be black under the lease conditions of the block of townhouses I live in). The sales manager said on the phone that he reckoned the foil frame will be between 1.25 and 1.35 u-value, but because such frames haven't been tested before he cannot say for sure.

I just want to be sure that these are good quality triple glazed windows that will do a good job at heat retention and contribute towards a higher EPC score for my house.

If anyone has any thoughts as to whether any of the below sounds out of place I'd be most grateful - the installation is due to take place this Wednesday. Thanks very much indeed in advance.



Glass Specification:

Low Iron Glass Correct
Warmedge Spacer Bar - Correct
Argon Gas (90%) - Correct
Low emissivity soft coat TOUGHENED middle pane - Correct
Low emissivity soft coat glass - Correct

Hardware:

Heavy duty side hung hinge will be fitted to all side hung sashes - (This heavy duty hinge is an approved egress and easy clean hinge as per the current hardware but it does not come with dog bolts. Correct but with rear hinge defenders.)
Top hung sashes are not affected as the current hinge will cope with the extra weight - Correct

Performance:

Triple glazed Sealed Unit U Value = Centre pane U Value of 0.96 W/m2k
Tricept Window U Value = As advised we have no U Value for foiled frames; for reference our white UPVC frame is 1.1 W/m2k
WER rating = Our WER rating is A +12 for White UPVC, but as explain we have no rating for foiled products

dominoman

Foiled windows are standard UPVC windows with a thin additional layer bonded on to provide colour or a wood grain effect.

You don't even need the layer to be on both sides, so you could have white inside and dark outside. I'm not an expert on it, but I'd be surprised if the "foil" makes any significant difference at all.

ytfcmad

dominoman wrote: »

Foiled windows are standard UPVC windows with a thin additional layer bonded on to provide colour or a wood grain effect.

You don't even need the layer to be on both sides, so you could have white inside and dark outside. I'm not an expert on it, but I'd be surprised if the "foil" makes any significant difference at all.

It doesn't and £5k:rotfl: AS for triple glazing, another waste of money, you will NEVER get your money back as for the u value, the only thing that will notice the difference between A rated and B rated is the computer that did the calculation in the first place.

MX5huggy

The foil won't make any difference to the u-value of the window frame. As long as it is just an additional layer on a standard frame.

But don't expect anything amazing on your EPC. If you don't have a WER certificate to show the Assessor they have to use the default u-value for triple glazing which is 1.8 compared to 2.0 post 2003 double the default g value is also lower ( not good) for triple so if it made 1 point different on the EPC at best but each band is covered by many points so if your really lucky it pushes you up a band but most likley not.

Maikeru

ytfcmad wrote: »

It doesn't and £5k:rotfl: AS for triple glazing, another waste of money, you will NEVER get your money back as for the u value, the only thing that will notice the difference between A rated and B rated is the computer that did the calculation in the first place.

5K to re-glaze the whole of the front of my three storey 1960s townhouse in London isn't all that bad (I had much higher quotes) - have you seen what some of the houses from that period are like? Pretty much more than half of the frontage is glass - 11 windows in total if you count the upper and lower panes separately, plus a massive window in the middle of the 1st floor living room.

Most of it is single glazing and original/horrendously old. Triple glazing was like an extra 400 quid all together on top of the double glazing price for the whole lot.

Of course nobody ever gets their money back on either double or triple glazing; but it's worth having in cold winters (especially with young kids or other vulnerable residents) and can increase the attractiveness of the property.

prosaver

plastic is a good insulator anyway dont need the foil..
he con man
tell him and you might get your quote a bit cheaper

GreenSheep

All looks fine to me.
And by the sounds of the work you describe, £5k seems okay.
You could get it cheaper but not life-changingly.

But forget EPCs. They aren't worth the paper they are written on.
They are a 10 minute inspection of your house by a bloke who's done a 2 day course.
You want triple glazing considered? Tell the guy it's AAA+ Turbo Super Triple Glazing. He won't know any different.
He won't be asking for receipts. And he certainly won't be diving into heat coefficients of window frames.

When I had an EPC done last I told the bloke that the walls had 3inches of foiled-foam insulation when, the walls are actually just single block. He had no way of checking. And no way of knowing.

EPC = they check you have energy saving lamps and that the loft has insulation. The rest is guess-work based on what you decide to tell him.

System

The uvalue of windows should be quoted for the whole assembly rather than each element - sounds like they know their frames are poorly performing so trying to tell you how good the glass is... Can't see the foil finish having any impact of the energy performance of the window either.
These guys are snake oil salesmen who will tell you anything to get a sale

If you are serious about wanting quality triple glazing with a good uvalue you are going to have to step up from upvc - I would be tempted to get a quote from some reputable manufacturers for comparison, you would just need to get someone to for them...

dominoman

GreenSheep wrote: »

When I had an EPC done last I told the bloke that the walls had 3inches of foiled-foam insulation when, the walls are actually just single block. He had no way of checking. And no way of knowing.

EPC = they check you have energy saving lamps and that the loft has insulation. The rest is guess-work based on what you decide to tell him.

Nice to know! I will try that when I get my EPC. Though does anyone care about these things?

New house = efficient (so long as it has been well-built)
Old house = leaky and inefficient.

Smiley_Dan

You need the Uw number, not the Ug. That means the U for the whole installed window. It'll be higher than Ug, because frames are always the weak part of window performance. The material of the frame generally doesn't matter to the energy efficiency, because the vast majority of the performance comes from the insulation in the frame.

Of course in reality it's also the installation that needs to be top notch.

Your "new house = efficient" assumption is just wrong. So, so many bad new homes being built. Many building techniques now, adopted on the premise of cost, are inherently worse than old techniques (dot and dab plasterboarding).

MX5huggy

dominoman wrote: »

Nice to know! I will try that when I get my EPC. Though does anyone care about these things?

New house = efficient (so long as it has been well-built)
Old house = leaky and inefficient.

Green Sheep is talking rubbish, the insulation in the walls is estimated by the age of the building and the thickness of the walls so his single brick walls are not thick enough to have 3 inches of insulation in them.