Customer withholding tools please help

gremlin

Hi Im looking for a bit of advice.

My brother was working part time for a building company which was declared bankrupt owing him a lot of money, which is bad enough just before Christmas but the main issue is that the customer they were working for is now withholding his personal tools meaning he's struggling to get any other work.

He has approached the customer requesting the tools. The job was completed to the stage already paid for so the customer is not owed any goods or services but are still stating breach of contract and my brother has recieved a phone call from the police stating harassment and told to stay away. Ironic as my brother is the most laid back hard working person.

We contacted the police and they are saying they are being held as assets of the company and its a civil matter etc. but they are his personal property not company assets.

I know we could take the legal route but in the meantime it doesnt help him with being able to work

Has anybody any experience in this area of law and any advice greatly received.

Thanks

Undervalued

gremlin wrote: »

I know we could take the legal route but in the meantime it doesnt help him with being able to work

Has anybody any experience in this area of law and any advice greatly received.

Thanks

Keep in mind that even if he ultimately has a valid claim against them for loss of earnings he would be expected to mitigate his losses as far as reasonably possible.

So, if for example it is cheaper to hire tools and work rather than sit at home not working a court would expect him to have done so.

In the first instance I would WRITE (don't phone / visit) stating clearly what the position is and making clear that he will hold them responsible for any resulting losses if they don't return his property.

gremlin

thanks undervalued

much appreciated. We will of course follow this path I just wondered if there was any way to sort this out asap. I have the police community liason for the customers area coming in an hour to discuss the situation and have been searching the internet in the meantime.

According the the insolvency act personal tools that allow a person to do their job are exempt from the company assets as it prevents them from working. Does that therefore mean we have a case that they are being held illegally and should be returned?

thankyou

Guest101

gremlin wrote: »

Hi Im looking for a bit of advice.

My brother was working part time for a building company which was declared bankrupt owing him a lot of money, - Was he employed, or contracted in. I assume the latter. which is bad enough just before Christmas but the main issue is that the customer they were working for is now withholding his personal tools meaning he's struggling to get any other work. - He may need to provide proof of ownership for the tools.

He has approached the customer requesting the tools. The job was completed to the stage already paid for so the customer is not owed any goods or services - well that's not likely true. But that doesnt really matter. but are still stating breach of contract and my brother has recieved a phone call from the police stating harassment and told to stay away. Ironic as my brother is the most laid back hard working person. - Well he probably should've reported the theft of tools at the time.

We contacted the police and they are saying they are being held as assets of the company and its a civil matter etc. - It's not, but because the police are busy and neither you nor he knew better, you didn't say the right things. but they are his personal property not company assets.

I know we could take the legal route but in the meantime it doesnt help him with being able to work - The legal route can take as little as 14 days.

Has anybody any experience in this area of law and any advice greatly received.

Thanks

Write a letter on his behalf as follows:


Letter Before Action


Dear ____


I write to you to day in relation to tools which who are holding, which you believe to be company assets, but which in fact belong to mr ______. Please not the Torts Interference with Goods Act 1977 applies in this situation.


Please reply with-in 14 days specifying a reasonable time and place (with-in a further 5 days) for mr ____ to collect his personal belongings.


Failure to reply will lead to further legal action and may result in further costs to yourself.


Please note this matter is completely separate to any dispute you have with (builders company), Mr ___ was an employee, in essence a sub contractor, of (builders company) and provided his own tools to work with.


Please note that by withholding his tools you are causing him to suffer a loss of earnings, Mr ____ is willing to forego such a claim in exchange for a timely return of the tools. However this offer is only valid for the previously mentioned 14 day period, is offered entirely without prejudice and should be considered as a gesture of good will only.


Kind regards


XXXX
on behalf of Mr _____

Guest101

Undervalued wrote: »

Keep in mind that even if he ultimately has a valid claim against them for loss of earnings he would be expected to mitigate his losses as far as reasonably possible. - I'm still debating the validity of this. Normally these cases involve a breach of contract between the owner and the client, or between the company and it's sub contractors (where a contract exists), in this case no such contract exists (sub contractor and client).

So, if for example it is cheaper to hire tools and work rather than sit at home not working a court would expect him to have done so. - I suspect this is not quite as straight forward. Mitigating his losses would be not hiring the most expensive tools and then charging back to the client (under the torts: interference with goods act 1977) as an example.

In the first instance I would WRITE (don't phone / visit) stating clearly what the position is and making clear that he will hold them responsible for any resulting losses if they don't return his property.

I agree, write (as I outlined above)

gremlin

Thanks Guest101

(He has approached the customer requesting the tools. The job was completed to the stage already paid for so the customer is not owed any goods or services - well that's not likely true. But that doesnt really matter.)

The job was paid for in stages and that stage had been completed before Christmas so there should be no breach of contract.


Thanks very much for your assistance, its a great help. I will download this letter and send it registered delivery and see what happens from there.

Guest101

gremlin wrote: »

Thanks Guest101

(He has approached the customer requesting the tools. The job was completed to the stage already paid for so the customer is not owed any goods or services - well that's not likely true. But that doesnt really matter.)

The job was paid for in stages and that stage had been completed before Christmas so there should be no breach of contract. - I think you're getting caught up in semantics. Doesn't matter how the job is paid for. The client and the builder (unless the client is a total moron) had a contract (contract A) to build something. The timeline was decided between them, and the project broken down into stages. But the contract was for the whole project (again unless client is a moron), so there is a breach of contract, as a bankrupt company cannot complete the contract. The customer will eventually need to hand over the tools to the administrator of the bankruptcy, as assets to be sold and creditors paid off. Since the client has no court order, he is not even a creditor.


Then there is contract B - the contract of employment of Mr ____ by the builder. There is a clear breach there, as the employee is owed wages (or is sub contractor, has outstanding invoices) from the company.


Two contracts breached. 1 Between build and client and 1 between builder and contractor/employee.


However there is no breach between Mr ____ and the client. So the client cannot hold the goods as security for breach of contract, as said goods do not belong to the company in question. Nor could they do so with goods which are on finance, as again they belong to the principal creditor.



Thanks very much for your assistance, its a great help. I will download this letter and send it registered delivery and see what happens from there.

Send it 1st class (not signed for) and get proof of posting. Don't waste your money on signed for. - it is deemed served after 48 hours.

Undervalued

Guest101 wrote: »

Send it 1st class (not signed for) and get proof of posting. Don't waste your money on signed for. - it is deemed served after 48 hours.

Yes, sometime signed for will encourage a person to refuse the letter (if they have reason to suspect it might be something like this).

To be extra safe you could send two copies, each with a certificate of posting, from different post offices.

TELLIT01

If a company goes bankrupt, or into receivership, I believe anything on their premises is assumed to be their asset unless a third party can prove ownership. That may well be what has happened here. If you brother can prove that they are his tools he may be able to retrieve them but will need to speak to whoever is winding up the company in order to do so.

ACG

I would also include any evidence (copies) of proof of ownership - if he has any receipts for the tools etc.

gremlin

Thanks all for the input.

Regarding ownership, as my brother has been collecting his tools over many years ( as any good builder does) he wont have much in the way of receipts.

However, some of the tools have his name on them but not many but if they are in the same tool boxes/bags as the named items then hopefully this may help establish ownership.?

I am just hoping that pursuing this might just push the customer into thinking its not worth the hassle and he relents



Point taken on the proof of posting and sending two copies.

Good idea

Again thanks for the advice