Solar PV installation to be removed from EPC calculation

MFW_ASAP

I was delighted when the government changed the rules on FIT payments a few years ago and insisted that households wanting to install solar and receive the full feed in tariff payment needed to first reduce their energy wastage. As someone who is very interested in environmental issues it made perfect sense that people should reduce their energy usage and definitely wastage before they worried about energy production.

Unfortunately the bar was set rather low (an EPC D rating) and worse, allowed the installation of solar PV to count towards the energy rating. This meant that people even in houses that had an E or F rating could get away with zero energy efficiency improvements and just gain a D rating by installing PV, which would then allow then to claim full FITs. It made one wonder if anyone had ever failed to achieve a D rating for their solar.

Thankfully, this totally bizarre anomaly will be closed from 15th January, when solar PV installations will not count towards the EPC rating. Anyone who wants to claim solar FITs will now actually and genuinely have to improve the energy efficiency of their house if they have an E or lower rated home.

As we are all 'green' and 'ethical' in this forum I'm sure everyone will agree with me that this is a great step forward in promoting energy efficiency in the UK and that it's a shame the EPC requirement was not thought of when Solar FITs were first implemented and a shame that the loophole was allowed to exist.

Good news, I'm sure we will all agree

michaels

Actually I can't see the economic sense in tying these two things together - surely PV should stand or fall on its own merit as does energy efficiency. suppose a building is uneconomic to get to the required standard - why should that impact whether it is suitable for a pv installation?

(Personally we bought a house that was E or F and had made it up to B before we had PV fitted but the two were completely unconnected to each other)

MFW_ASAP

michaels wrote: »

Actually I can't see the economic sense in tying these two things together - surely PV should stand or fall on its own merit as does energy efficiency. suppose a building is uneconomic to get to the required standard - why should that impact whether it is suitable for a pv installation?

(Personally we bought a house that was E or F and had made it up to B before we had PV fitted but the two were completely unconnected to each other)

I can't see the economic sense in increasing my energy bills in order to pay FITS to someone who wastes energy, but there you go.

Impressed to hear you reduced from an E/F to a B prior to having renewables installed. How did you manage such a significant reduction?

tunnel

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

I can't see the economic sense in increasing my energy bills in order to pay FITS to someone who wastes energy, but there you go.

I don't waste energy, I try to use every last watt.

MFW_ASAP

tunnel wrote: »

I don't waste energy, I try to use every last watt.

So you have never left a bathroom light on by mistake? You have the highest rated white goods, especially fridge and freezer that are on 24/7/365? You have all LED lights? You have no tumble dryer or at least a heat pump one? It's a bold statement to say that you don't waste energy. With the best will in the world, we all do it.

If it is to be wasted, don't you find it more palatable to waste it accidentally via a forgotten light, than to do it deliberately with inefficient electrical equipment or TVs and computers left on standby?

tunnel

I'm talking of not wasting any of the energy I produce, you really should be more clear in your statements.

MFW_ASAP

tunnel wrote: »

I'm talking of not wasting any of the energy I produce, you really should be more clear in your statements.

You may have been talking about the energy you produce via PV, but I obviously wasn't. I was clearly talking about all energy wastage. I think you really need to read posts before you answer them.

zeupater

tunnel wrote: »

I don't waste energy, I try to use every last watt.

Agree, we don't waste energy either ....

Our total import of electricity last year worked out at just about 3kWh/day and we still exported the majority of what the pv system generated. Solar thermal provided well over 80% of our DHW requirement with the pump being powered by our own generated electricity.

We burned around 2.5 cubic metres of local sustainable source logs, so somewhere around 1.5tonnes - that's around 6000kWh of heat provision ... add in the total import of gas and electricity our total energy purchase was around 8000kWh. We grow about a quarter/third of our annual fruit & veg and source a high proportion of the remaining food purchases locally. We run a hybrid EV which over the relatively short average journeys consumes well below half of the energy per mile when compared to standard vehicles. I wonder how this matches-up to the energy usage in the OP's "Grade II listed farmhouse" ... there's a challenge - how much energy does the OP waste ? .... on gas+electricity we're currently buying under 10kWh/m2 of living space per year and we're being paid for less electricity than we export .... not much waste there then!.

Now, apart from bragging about the expensive house purchased in 2010, pension value, investment strategies etc. it pretty hard to remember anything anywhere near constructive which has been posted by the OP. On the 'green & ethical' front, just from memory, we've had a ongoing internal insulation project, and then there's all the talk of installing solar thermal, pv, hydro and rainwater harvesting (probably more) and nothing ever happens, year after year after year .. apart from the same old load of male cow excrement wrapped up to attempt to convince someone that the vile, personal and vindictive posting manner is justified by being a 'green crusader' posting to protect the elderly and vulnerable as opposed to being a simple worshipper at the altar of mammon ....

Now we have yet another totally meaningless thread which is designed to achieve nothing other than argument, yes - that's argument as opposed to debate or information. Of course, there'll be all of the usual regurgitation of ancient information sources which have been used by the various incarnations which the OP has used over the years and, of course, it'll certainly be targeted in the same old way .... Grade II listed farmhouse?, if it exists I'd wager that there are underlying issues which encourage all of the anti-everything angst which the OP displays on various threads on these boards.

If the OP is less wasteful, he should 'put up' and provide details, if not, start doing the improvements 'talked' about for year, after year, after year .... probably a case of all talk, no action there then, too much time planning the posting of 'male cow excrement' in order to feel important to actually do what many of us did years ago ..... of course, apart from 'put up' or 'do', there's also the possibility of not looking so ridiculous and 'shut up' ....

Z

MFW_ASAP

Phew zeupater, what a long-winded way of saying that you agree with my view that people should look at reducing their consumption as much as possible before they look at generation.

At least I assume that's why you listed all of your energy efficiency improvements?

For my part, I have installed internal wall insulation, insulation in the ceiling/floor voids and created a warm roof with insulation in the rafters. Our last improvement was to replace all of our leaky windows with A rated powder coated steel ones.

As we have a listed building, our renovations cost proportionally more than normal, as we have to use traditional building materials like lime (instead of cheap plasterboard and plaster or cement) and breathable materials like woodfibre and sheepswool (instead of kingspan or polystyrene). I don't mind as these are more environmentally kinder than their modern counterparts, though it's also difficult finding tradesmen with these skills, or who have the time to do them (lime plastering involved three coats, all of which need time to harden and 'fettling time'). I therefore have to learn new skills and do the jobs myself, which adds to the timescales.

The wood burners have been in heavy use this year, burning wood that was sourced from woodland belonging to the farm next door. We also have an allotment, so provide ourselves with home grown organic food.

The rainwater harvesting project is moving along. I spent several days over the xmas break dodging rainstorms to dig ditches for the pipework to connect all the gutter downpipes (only one left to go). Once these have all been brought together I'll be looking to install the tank. This is looking like a springtime job - the garden looked like the Somme just digging a few ditches, I hate to think what it would be like with a huge hole for the tank. The runoff to the stream is already in place and working nicely. It's great to see all that clean rainwater going into the freshwater stream instead of a sewer. Very Green.

The PV will be fitted once FIT drops and the artificial prop to PV prices is removed (this happened the last time the FIT was dropped). I'll be doing a DIY install to save money. I'm not interested in receiving FIT payments and while I will have to pay more for the kit (20% VAT instead of 5%), the installation charge will be zero so it'll be more cost effective.

I never said I would install Hydro, I merely asked a question about what other people thought was the smallest amount of micro generation was worth it. I calculated that our stream could generate about 100w/h. Some people thought that 100w/h ws OK, I personally think that 500w to 1kw/h would be a more reasonable amount.

I'll not be installing solar thermal as this technology is effectively dead due to the advent of immersion type devices. I'll heat my water via this technology (again, I'm not interested in FIT or export payments, so I'l try and use as much of my electricity as possible).

I hope that answers your questions. Thanks for taking such an interest in my circumstances

MFW_ASAP

As to the anti-everything angst?

I'm only against a single thing: Domestic PV funded by feed in tariffs. I have made it very plain why I think this is a bad idea, so won't go into that all again.

zeupater

Hi

And to the thread .....

Referencing the consultation - Paragraph 7.24 (P106) ( https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/487300/FITs_Review_Govt__response_Final.pdf )

"Therefore, DECC intends to implement the proposal to require the EPC. to be issued prior to the commissioning date of the PV installation as a scheme eligibility requirement for new applicants. The effectiveness and impact of this change will be monitored and, if necessary, reviewed following its implementation. "

I was under the impression that the application for the FiT needed a copy of the EPC anyway, certainly been the case with a number of people which I know who've had systems sine the EPC requirement came in. If unscrupulous individuals have been 'fiddling' the system in order to meet qualification criteria then the change to a more ethical stance is to be welcomed and I'm pretty sure that I'd not be the only one to take that stance ....

Thinking about the above, it's a little like intending to flush the toilets with harvested rainwater and not informing the water supplier so as to not pay the appropriate sewerage disposal charges whilst attempting to occupy the moral high-ground .... I wonder whether the OP remembers that little 'loophole' which would result in every 'poor little old lady living in a rented property' subsidising a luxurious lifestyle in a grand 'Grade II listed farmhouse' ? ... morality, probably not, more likely investment return, planning authority, shade accompanied by a compulsive need to argue ..

Mind though, the change is a little obscure. I knew about it because I read through the consultation carefully when published and pondered on the point until the 'penny dropped' but would have thought that the only people who would be aware of the loophole or the implications of the changes would be those attempting to sneak a leaky old building up to an EPC band where FiTs could be claimed .... should we be morally concerned, or is this just a misplaced thought process ? .....

Z