Universal Credit sanction

dktreesea

I have a relative who gets a top up to their wages on Universal Credit. For some reason they got sanctioned. I spoke to the UC telephone people on their behalf and they told me the sanction had been lifted but there was a 14 day stand-down before UC would restart again. So it got to the end of the period but no top up went into their account. They phoned up and were told the sanction hadn't been lifted, even though we were both told three weeks ago that it had been lifted. They also claim to send letters out which never arrive. They said they had done a mandatory reconsideration of the sanction but it hadn't been lifted, claimed it had been in place for months, then claimed it had begun in a different month, several months later. Their latest claim is as a result of the mandatory reconsideration it has been lifted, with the stand down. That is the latest info they told me. So why now are they telling the claimant, three weeks on, that the sanction hasn't been lifted at all? And why have they never once sent out any letters referring to the sanction(s?)and the breakdown of it, even though they keep claiming they have been sending letters out?


This sounds to me like abuse of process. Has anyone had similar experiences with Universal Credit and what steps should we now take going forward?

vlad

I assume they had permission to discuss the matter with a 3rd party?
Personally as this is getting quite involved I would advise seeing the local MP

dktreesea

The Citizens Advice Bureau say the next step is to go to an independent tribunal. I'm starting to realise why people who have no support in the wider community, as in live quite isolated existences, kill themselves after dealing with the DWP. It's quite an eye opener when you don't have any direct experience of the benefits system.


The problem with working part time, as in the employer deliberately keeping your hours and pay below the amount at which they would have to pay employer's national insurance, - (and I blame the system rather than the employer for this. What a perverse incentive to have in a system that is meant to be encouraging people towards full time work and self sufficiency) - is that you can't earn enough to survive and you need UC so that your NI stamp gets paid, if for nothing else.


An indenepndent tribunal sounds pretty daunting to me. Has anyone been through this process? I'd like to know from someone who has had first hand experience of it. The CAB are helpful but are not in a position where they need to take this step themselves, just advising other people what to do and how to prepare for it. I am worried this is going to drag on and on.

tomtontom

A tribunal should not be overly stressful, they are relatively informal and they truly are independent of the DWP. What I would do as a priority is submit a subject access request so you can see the full history of the claim.

Is it not possible for your relative to get a second job? It would be the simplest solution.

Marktheshark

The system is basically a cunning way to make people work and pay their own way.
Constant frustrations and sanctions mixed with deliberate lies will eventually pee off even the most determined benefit claimant.
The tories are in power now and living off benefits and top up benefits is over, its just going to take a time to sink in.

dktreesea

Marktheshark wrote: »

The system is basically a cunning way to make people work and pay their own way.
Constant frustrations and sanctions mixed with deliberate lies will eventually pee off even the most determined benefit claimant.
The tories are in power now and living off benefits and top up benefits is over, its just going to take a time to sink in.

That's certainly one possible outcome, i.e. that people will choose to work out of necessity, manage to get a job and then not treat it in a cavalier fashion and make a great effort to hang onto it or improve it by getting a better job.


The reality is that the vast majority of people have never been part of the benefits system, or if they have it was a brief interlude, if that's the right word, in a long ago recession 30 or 40 years ago. And those that dreamed up UC and the deliberate dishonesty that seems to be part of its fabric really seem to believe that if you restrict state aid enough, even dishonestly denying people what they are entitled to, people will see work as the only option, the only way to survive.


But that isn't what happens in all cases, is it. People sink from a mild form of depression they were coping with into a deep depression, even commit suicide. I've never encountered the DWP and its evil twin, the job centre before, but now that I have I can understand the despair dealing with either of them creates.


Maybe we should all learn to survive on £10 a week, just in case we ever have to. My advice to anyone who is working is to build up a modest emergency fund. Enough to pay at least three months mortgage/rent, the bills over the same period and even just £10 a day to survive on. I don't believe UC will be as reliable a cash flow as the various benefits it is replacing have been for people.

dktreesea

tomtontom wrote: »

A tribunal should not be overly stressful, they are relatively informal and they truly are independent of the DWP. What I would do as a priority is submit a subject access request so you can see the full history of the claim.

Is it not possible for your relative to get a second job? It would be the simplest solution.

I didn't realise there was such a thing as a subject access request. I will definitely look into this.

red_devil

dktreesea wrote: »

I have a relative who gets a top up to their wages on Universal Credit. For some reason they got sanctioned. I spoke to the UC telephone people on their behalf and they told me the sanction had been lifted but there was a 14 day stand-down before UC would restart again. So it got to the end of the period but no top up went into their account. They phoned up and were told the sanction hadn't been lifted, even though we were both told three weeks ago that it had been lifted. They also claim to send letters out which never arrive. They said they had done a mandatory reconsideration of the sanction but it hadn't been lifted, claimed it had been in place for months, then claimed it had begun in a different month, several months later. Their latest claim is as a result of the mandatory reconsideration it has been lifted, with the stand down. That is the latest info they told me. So why now are they telling the claimant, three weeks on, that the sanction hasn't been lifted at all? And why have they never once sent out any letters referring to the sanction(s?)and the breakdown of it, even though they keep claiming they have been sending letters out?


This sounds to me like abuse of process. Has anyone had similar experiences with Universal Credit and what steps should we now take going forward?

DWP are so incompetent! It beggars belief.

red_devil

dktreesea wrote: »

I didn't realise there was such a thing as a subject access request. I will definitely look into this.

yes its easy just write it down that you would like one, write all your details on a piece of paper and take it in to the jobcentre. They have 40 days to supply it so write down in your notes when you took it in.

red_devil

dktreesea wrote: »

The Citizens Advice Bureau say the next step is to go to an independent tribunal. I'm starting to realise why people who have no support in the wider community, as in live quite isolated existences, kill themselves after dealing with the DWP. It's quite an eye opener when you don't have any direct experience of the benefits system.


The problem with working part time, as in the employer deliberately keeping your hours and pay below the amount at which they would have to pay employer's national insurance, - (and I blame the system rather than the employer for this. What a perverse incentive to have in a system that is meant to be encouraging people towards full time work and self sufficiency) - is that you can't earn enough to survive and you need UC so that your NI stamp gets paid, if for nothing else.


An indenepndent tribunal sounds pretty daunting to me. Has anyone been through this process? I'd like to know from someone who has had first hand experience of it. The CAB are helpful but are not in a position where they need to take this step themselves, just advising other people what to do and how to prepare for it. I am worried this is going to drag on and on.

ive been to a tribunal its ok. They let you know the decision within a couple of days.

Podge52

tomtontom wrote: »

A tribunal should not be overly stressful, they are relatively informal and they truly are independent of the DWP. What I would do as a priority is submit a subject access request so you can see the full history of the claim.

Is it not possible for your relative to get a second job? It would be the simplest solution.

I'm not to sure how you arrive at the conclusion that getting a second job is the simplest solution without knowing any of the circumstances.

It might be the simplest solution but it could equally be impossible at the present time.