Danes, Swedes impose new border checks in fresh blow to open-frontier Europe

Thrugelmir

Migrant crisis exposing flaws in Schengen zone........

Will these checks become permanent?

Denmark imposed temporary identity checks on its border with Germany on Monday following a similar move by Sweden, dealing a double blow to Europe's fraying passport-free Schengen area amid a record influx of migrants.

Sweden began checking documents of travelers from Denmark on Monday for the first time in half a century, causing delays of up to 50 minutes for trains and buses crossing the 4.9 mile (7.9 km) Oresund Bridge, Europe's longest combined road and rail bridge. However private vehicles were exempt from the checks.

Denmark's prime minister said Sweden's move gave his country no option but to impose its own border controls and he appealed to the European Union to take "collective decisions" to better protect its external borders against the tide of migrants.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-denmark-sweden-idUSKBN0UI17D20160104

kinger101

I think this is probably leading to an EU border force, but I think the closing of the German-Danish border might be the prelude to a fortress Scandinavia . The Danes closed the German border in the hope the Swedes would reopen theirs.

Generali

I don't see the flaws.

If there is a problem with large numbers of refugees in the EU then closing borders within Europe just concentrates the problem at the point of arrival. This doesn't address the problem, it just lets the Swedes wash their hands of it.

kinger101

To be fair, on a per capita basis, Sweden had previously taken in more refugees and any other EU country. And had granted all Syrians refugee status without question.

http://www.thelocal.se/20160104/why-do-refugees-prefer-sweden-to-denmark

Sapphire

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Migrant crisis exposing flaws in Schengen zone........

Will these checks become permanent?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-denmark-sweden-idUSKBN0UI17D20160104

Yes, I saw this – it is inevitable, and 'collective decisions' must (and will) indeed ultimately be taken to protect Europe's external borders against the tide of migrants. Europe cannot financially or otherwise support the potential arrival of millions, or even many tens of millions of people from the Middle East, Africa and other non-European areas.

Generali

Sapphire wrote: »

Yes, I saw this – it is inevitable, and 'collective decisions' must (and will) indeed ultimately be taken to protect Europe's external borders against the tide of migrants. Europe cannot financially or otherwise support the potential arrival of millions, or even many tens of millions of people from the Middle East, Africa and other non-European areas.

There are about 25,000,000 unemployed in the EU at present:

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Unemployment_statistics

Adding another million to that is small fry.

As a continent, Europe can deal with the refugee problem far better than leaving it to Greece, Italy and Spain.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Sapphire wrote: »

Europe cannot financially or otherwise support the potential arrival of millions.

Of course they can.

The EU population is 500 million people.

Even 5 million a year (which is 5 times the arrivals last year) would only be 1% of population a year.

Britain alone needs a million immigrants a year just to keep the population balance between generations to historical norms, and avoid crippling the young with onerous levels of taxation to support the old. Germany needs more than that.... And then there's all the rest...

Generali

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Of course they can.

The EU population is 500 million people.

Even 5 million a year (which is 5 times the arrivals last year) would only be 1% of population a year.

Britain alone needs a million immigrants a year just to keep the population balance between generations to historical norms, and avoid crippling the young with onerous levels of taxation to support the old. Germany needs more than that.... And then there's all the rest...

I think part of the problem is that people see a load of migrants and they leap to stereotypes: ill-educated, not employable. The fact is that many of the refugees will be trained doctors or teachers or nurses or chefs or plumbers have one of any number of skills that can well be put to use in Europe. That someone arrives in a country doesn't make them a burden in anything but the short term.

In the UK there are more job vacancies than unemployed people and unemployment continues to fall. If some refugees go to the UK and fill those roles not only does a job get filled, that person will then want to consume food and drink and transport and clothing and so on. All things that will create more employment in other parts of the economy.

unforeseen

It's nice to think that these refugees will be able to pay their way because they have a trade. Don't forget that a very large number come complete with 2 or more dependents who need to be supported. And that burden, unless the refugee can get a well paying job (unlikely) falls on the state.

Not forgetting the lack of housing as most countries struggle to provide enough housing for their existing countrymen

lisyloo

Generali wrote: »

I think part of the problem is that people see a load of migrants and they leap to stereotypes: ill-educated, not employable. The fact is that many of the refugees will be trained doctors or teachers or nurses or chefs or plumbers have one of any number of skills that can well be put to use in Europe. That someone arrives in a country doesn't make them a burden in anything but the short term.

In the UK there are more job vacancies than unemployed people and unemployment continues to fall. If some refugees go to the UK and fill those roles not only does a job get filled, that person will then want to consume food and drink and transport and clothing and so on. All things that will create more employment in other parts of the economy.

Agree, but you've omitted some significant issues.
Housing, health service, transport etc.
I find myself torn because on a humanitarian level I don't think it's right to deny people peace, security etc. However our nhs is in crisis and our trains have people passing out on them so there are some serious practical issues.
We could take them theoretically but we need urgent investment in infrastructure (which would itself bring jobs).

wymondham

Generali wrote: »

I don't see the flaws.

If there is a problem with large numbers of refugees in the EU then closing borders within Europe just concentrates the problem at the point of arrival. This doesn't address the problem, it just lets the Swedes wash their hands of it.

Does this not highlight that EU countries don't have an EU wide solution and frustration is driving countries to work on their own? If they can't work together on this then what else can't they work together on.....

I hear things are turning nasty in Germany.... interesting year ahead I think!