Drop in fuel prices

AdrianC

So, which party was suggesting reducing fuel duty? And how did they suggest filling that hole in the exchequer?

As far as other countries go, look at the prices across most of Europe, in terms of affordability, and tell me the UK is somehow ridiculously expensive.

motorguy

onthefencepost wrote: »

I usually run my cars on Vpower Diesel but as usual when the prices drop super fuels takes a good month to catch up. Local shell is dishing reg unleaded for 99.9 Vpower 113.9 total joke!

I'm curious as to why you spend 14p more per litre for "v power" diesel when diesel doesnt have an octane rating per se that could improve performance?

We've a 370z that requires 98RON unleaded to run optimally. Less than that and the car adjusts its timing to suit, but reduces power and economy slightly in the process.

I dont know of any diesel car that specifies a particular type of diesel to run optimally though?

Just curious.

Rolandtheroadie

motorguy wrote: »

I'm curious as to why you spend 14p more per litre for "v power" diesel when diesel doesnt have an octane rating per se that could improve performance?

We've a 370z that requires 98RON unleaded to run optimally. Less than that and the car adjusts its timing to suit, but reduces power and economy slightly in the process.

I dont know of any diesel car that specifies a particular type of diesel to run optimally though?

Just curious.

People believing that the increased cetane rating using V-power diesel has the same benefits as running an increased octane rating in a petrol car?
If they are better for performance engines, you would think the benefits would, to a lesser extent, help in other cars.

A cleaner burn and better efficiency.

motorguy

Rolandtheroadie wrote: »

People believing that the increased cetane rating using V-power diesel has the same benefits as running an increased octane rating in a petrol car?
If they are better for performance engines, you would think the benefits would, to a lesser extent, help in other cars.

A cleaner burn and better efficiency.

Is there any real independent evidence to back that up though?

I can understand high octane fuel in a car thats designed to run on high octane fuel, but using 97 RON or 98 RON fuel in a petrol engine thats designed for 95 RON wont make a button of difference to performance.

So i cant see how "performance" diesel would?

I use a Millers Diesel fuel additive in the Insignia and previously in the Jag 2.2D but it doesnt cost me anywhere near 14p per litre (i think its 1.6p per litre) to stick it in the tank, and it does seem to work.

AdrianC

motorguy wrote: »

Is there any real independent evidence to back that up though?

Shell don't even sell it as having any direct performance benefit. They sell it as "protecting" your engine and cleaning it.

http://www.shell.co.uk/motorist/shell-fuels/shell-v-power-nitro-plus/shell-v-power-nitro-plus-diesel.html

Rolandtheroadie

motorguy wrote: »

Is there any real independent evidence to back that up though?

I can understand high octane fuel in a car thats designed to run on high octane fuel, but using 97 RON or 98 RON fuel in a petrol engine thats designed for 95 RON wont make a button of difference to performance.

So i cant see how "performance" diesel would?

I use a Millers Diesel fuel additive in the Insignia and previously in the Jag 2.2D but it doesnt cost me anywhere near 14p per litre (i think its 1.6p per litre) to stick it in the tank, and it does seem to work.

As mentioned by AdrianC, I don't think it's a performance thing.
Think it's more aimed at cleaner and a bit more MPG.

I did have a look at this before posting.

http://www.chipexpress.com/articles/rating-diesel-understanding-cetane-numbers/

I was quite interested in the fact premium diesel and Biodiesel have a similar cetane rating.
I produced Bio for 5 years, and the first thing you're told is it cleans out your fuel system, so can cause filter issues initially.
I didn't really do an MPG check, as the cheap fuel was more important than the MPG.

motorguy

Rolandtheroadie wrote: »

As mentioned by AdrianC, I don't think it's a performance thing.
Think it's more aimed at cleaner and a bit more MPG.

I did have a look at this before posting.

http://www.chipexpress.com/articles/rating-diesel-understanding-cetane-numbers/

I was quite interested in the fact premium diesel and Biodiesel have a similar cetane rating.
I produced Bio for 5 years, and the first thing you're told is it cleans out your fuel system, so can cause filter issues initially.
I didn't really do an MPG check, as the cheap fuel was more important than the MPG.

Exactly. Which is my point as to why run a very expensive fuel such as V Power fuel, when you're not getting any performance gain, nor does your car require to be run on it.

Hence why i use a Millers additive to give the cleaning and efficiency benefits without the inflated price - i know exactly what it does, and i know exactly what i'm paying for.

Rolandtheroadie

motorguy wrote: »

Exactly. Which is my point as to why run a very expensive fuel such as V Power fuel, when you're not getting any performance gain, nor does your car require to be run on it.

Hence why i use a Millers additive to give the cleaning and efficiency benefits without the inflated price - i know exactly what it does, and i know exactly what i'm paying for.

The Millers boost the cetane or octane, which would suggest the performance fuels will clean and improve mpg in a non performance car, but as you say, much more expensive.

Ordered a Millers petrol and one for diesel to try them out. I'd been going to try a performance fuel on one of our cars, but this is cheaper and looks to have the same benefits. Worth a try.

motorguy

Rolandtheroadie wrote: »

The Millers boost the cetane or octane, which would suggest the performance fuels will clean and improve mpg in a non performance car, but as you say, much more expensive.

Ordered a Millers petrol and one for diesel to try them out. I'd been going to try a performance fuel on one of our cars, but this is cheaper and looks to have the same benefits. Worth a try.

We use the petrol Octane booster from Millers in the 370Z as we can only get 97RON here in Northern Ireland. It seems v good

Overall they both get excellent reviews.

agarnett

Why all that diversionary discussion on cetanes and RONs and V-Powers and additive whatchamacallits :P? Are you all really suggesting that's where the money-saving campaign for cheaper fuel prices should base its roots? Let's get back to the basics. Hands up who isn't paying 99.7 per litre for whatever it is they last filled up with? I am talking Gravesend to Glasgow of course or Belfast to Bally wherever it was that Ryanair once landed by mistake and almost crossed a railway line!


It's a very firm cartel floor for the pricepoint at the moment is it not? How otherwise can it have become so consistent right across the country? The long distance courier van drivers amongst you will know I am right - its spooky how the Tescos of this world who used to have mixed prices countrywide have shaken them all to the same floorprice as Asda and Sainsbury and Morrison and SHell and Esso etc. 99.7 or thereabouts but NOT below NOT anywhere. Is there any cheaper right now? It's a fix, right? Now then to what Adrian said earlier ...

AdrianC wrote: »

So, which party was suggesting reducing fuel duty? And how did they suggest filling that hole in the exchequer?

Who said anything about needing to find a party to vote for who promise to reduce fuel duty? Why? Fuel duty is just a tax and the government needs tax and we need the government to collect tax to pay for education, health and infrastructure to name just a few things a developed society needs to fund, or as a society we're shafted. Why don't people get that? It is not a good thing that so many people are left out of contributing tax. You've been fooled if you disagree. You need to earn enough to be able to contribute. Otherwise how can you say you belong? How can you complain? You don't pay, you don't want to pay, so why should you have a say? The answer is get yourself a doubled wage, pay tax and be proud to do so, then say what you don't like, and what you want tax to be spent on. Till we get there, you'll be treated as sheep with no say, because effectively that's exactly what we all are if we hardly pay enough tax to give our kids a proper education.

Yes a doubled wage is pie in the sky if you stay in the UK. It can only be achieved by kerbing executive excess, City bonuses, and allowing strong respectable unions a place in society again. None of which will happen under the current government or the next I am sure!

From a simple fuel prices viewpoint, what we first could do with is not a fuel duty cut, but a government that cracks down on fraudulent price-rigging cartels. What we've got is one that looks the other way in so many ways. Osborne's eyes were designed for it I think - you can never tell what he's looking at, but we know it ain't the crooks!

As far as other countries go, look at the prices across most of Europe, in terms of affordability, and tell me the UK is somehow ridiculously expensive.

That's the point you see. Right now I am sitting in one such. The fuel duty on petrol is much the same as UK but last night I could fill up at about 92.7p/l. Diesel used to be the same price here as in UK until about a year ago, and that is when in the UK, diesel was generally 5p more expensive than petrol.

Due to the different method of scaling diesel fuel duty in this other country, when the wholesale price of oil is as low as it is now, it means (with no change in their system and just a quirk of their existing fuel duty scale) that diesel can be got currently for around 70p/l !!!

Now, if I tell you that the typical minimum wage (there is no national minimum) in this country I'm sat in today is around 100% higher than in UK then does that begin to answer your affordability question?

Oh and the personal tax allowance is around half ours and so everyone pays a good wodge of income tax as well as fuel duty and 25% VAT here and up to 150% purchase tax on new cars! Chief Execs aren't primadonnas who pay themselves 200x the shopfloor wage. 12x to 20x is the usual maximum and they rub shoulders with the workers on an equal social footing. No-one complains too much - instead they have free university education for their kids for as long as they want to be educated more or less, and not linked to their parent's income because due to a great welfare system and no fear of hire and fire which still happens easily, very few are really low income anyway so positive discrimination on family income grounds would be silly, a health system that is as good as or better than ours, and infrastructure that works when it snows! And what's more, unless it gets sunk by the tide of Middle East refugees, you can still send your kids here to take advantage of it if you are far-sighted enough and the courses are right (most in English but learning the local language wins extra plaudits!). It's part of the EU and it ain't shabby! Hillary Clinton loves it but isn't convinced. Bernie Sanders said USA could learn from it, and so might we!