ethenol (older cars/bikes)

pappa_golf

being discussed on another forum , "ethanol" , with the affects it does on fuel tanks ,pipes and carbs on older vehicles


http://www.ethanil.co.uk/


basically a very expensive kit , 2 containers and a funnel (deluxe)

you pour "x" litres of water , then "x" litres of petrol into the first container , using the "deluxe" funnel

shake and stir , and leave to stand , the water absorbs the ethanol , then you drain from the bottom till the water has run out and petrol flows

note in the instructions that the ethanol can be got rid of by incineration!!!!!!!


"if" it worked , and that's a big "if" its just a case of an old petrol mower tank with a tap at the bottom (minimal cost)


snake oil , or a good idea?

forgotmyname

They give you the answer on their main page and you must ask the question why you need their product?

If the ethanol separates to the bottom of the tank why not just drain the bottom of your tank?

Unless you have a classic car with an open fuel tank the i have to question how much moisture the ethanol really absorbs.

facade

I don't know what went wrong with cars, because in The Real Olden Days alcohol blends were common, the alcohol being used as an octane booster, instead of lead. The cars didn't grind to a halt then. However nowadays there are Dire Warnings about the effect on plastics, rubber pipes, brass and aluminium, all of which were used in Old Fashioned cars.

I remember my late father ran his Rover 90 on Cleveland Super Discol when I was a small boy, and nothing bad happened to that. I still have one of his old automotive repair books from 1957 that instructs you to add alcohol to the petrol tank if water has got in, the alcohol absorbs the water, and then mixes with the petrol and burns.


As to the kit:

The big problem touted currently with ethanol blends is "phase separation" when absorbed moisture in the ethanol causes it to separate from the petrol and form a layer in the bottom of the tank.

It only needs a few teaspoonfuls of water per gallon to cause this, so the kit is taking advantage of this, and should work. Whether it is worth the trouble or not ???

pappa_golf

facade wrote: »

I don't know what went wrong with cars, because in The Real Olden Days alcohol blends were common, the alcohol being used as an octane booster, instead of lead. The cars didn't grind to a halt then. However nowadays there are Dire Warnings about the effect on plastics, rubber pipes, brass and aluminium, all of which were used in Old Fashioned cars.

I remember my late father ran his Rover 90 on Cleveland Super Discol when I was a small boy, and nothing bad happened to that. I still have one of his old automotive repair books from 1957 that instructs you to add alcohol to the petrol tank if water has got in, the alcohol absorbs the water, and then mixes with the petrol and burns.


As to the kit:

The big problem touted currently with ethanol blends is "phase separation" when absorbed moisture in the ethanol causes it to separate from the petrol and form a layer in the bottom of the tank.

It only needs a few teaspoonfuls of water per gallon to cause this, so the kit is taking advantage of this, and should work. Whether it is worth the trouble or not ???

alcohol as used years ago , is not the same as ethanol , alcohol did not rot or cause deformation on plastic petrol tanks , as used on modern bikes , however ethanol does .


the way I was told to remove water , was a bit of mentholated spirits

BeenThroughItAll

pappa_golf wrote: »

the way I was told to remove water , was a bit of mentholated spirits

something like Creme de Menthe would do then I assume?

pappa_golf

dunno , but I have just been advised to mix the "waste" with red bull as it will almost be like vodka


PS the speel chucker did one on methylated,

Strider590

Ethanol makes up a part of the octane rating of the fuel, removing it will reduce the octane rating to probably in the region of 85ron, which will in turn cause damage to your engine unless you severely retard the ignition timing. It should be noted that this will be an issue anyway as phase separation occurs in the fuel tank.

In most areas though, super unleaded still does not contain ethanol, so for now that's a good solution. Beyond this you can get additives that stabilise the fuel, good for when the car, lawnmower, whatever is in winter storage.
Failing that, fill the tank fully before storage and if using a vented fuel cap, seal this off.

Modern 95ron will last around 30 days in a vented tank, before phase separation becomes an issue.

As for damage to the fuel tank and fuel lines, lets be honest, this is the EU in cahoots with the automotive industry, trying to get rid of older cars from our roads. The damage is going to occur and once super unleaded goes ethanol, you won't be able to do a damn thing about it.

pappa_golf

umm , no ethanol does not make up "extra" octane rating , it is simply added to the fuel and bulks it out


can you link me to a serious paper that states ethanol "adds" to the octane rating , as all the papers I have read state that ethanol is actually a much lower rating

forgotmyname

Ethanol lowers emissions. not an octane booster. Actually less efficient than straight petrol.

Currently 5% of your petrol is ethanol, so your losing 5% of your tank and paying for a product to remove it also. Sounds a bit mad.

Also the safety aspect to think about, you need to have fuel stored ready to treat and ready for use. I wonder how your home insurance will rate that?

facade

pappa_golf wrote: »

alcohol as used years ago , is not the same as ethanol , alcohol did not rot or cause deformation on plastic petrol tanks , as used on modern bikes , however ethanol does .


the way I was told to remove water , was a bit of mentholated spirits

What was alcohol years ago?

Methylated spirit is ethanol, that has been denatured by adding methanol to make you go blind if you drink it (with a bit of colouring as a sop to moaners who complain about everything), because you haven't paid enough excise duty to be allowed to drink it

Head_The_Ball

pappa_golf wrote: »

alcohol as used years ago , is not the same as ethanol , alcohol did not rot or cause deformation on plastic petrol tanks , as used on modern bikes , however ethanol does ....

Ethanol is an Alcohol and is the type of Alcohol found in alcoholic drinks.

There are other types of alcohol but, in general use, the word Alcohol usually refers to Ethanol unless otherwise stated.