Large slums developing in France

CLAPTON

BobQ wrote: »

I agree that those problems would need to be addressed but my point is that if there were secure areas for genuine asylum seekers and better living conditions, it might be easier to deal with the problem.

For those who are economic migrants who cannot prove they have EU citizenship they can be deported.

I don't see how this will work in practice

How do you depart a person with no passport and who is unwilling to say where he came from. We aren't dealing with uneducated country boys but people well versed in the 'correct' truths to tell and where the best opportunities are.

kinger101

BobQ wrote: »

I agree that those problems would need to be addressed but my point is that if there were secure areas for genuine asylum seekers and better living conditions, it might be easier to deal with the problem.

For those who are economic migrants who cannot prove they have EU citizenship they can be deported.

Isn't is better if the secure areas are on the borders of the countries where the situation exists? That way, people don't have to make the sometimes perilous journeys to Calais, often paying smugglers to do so. It only works with international collaboration, but I think Turkey and Lebanon need much more assistance in coping with refugees than France does.

The message should be get to safety by the quickest route, and then the international community will help you. I know this isn't currently the case, but France doesn't border any warzones. They should only really expect asylum cases showing up at airports.

thequant

CLAPTON wrote: »

I don't see how this will work in practice

How do you depart a person with no passport and who is unwilling to say where he came from. We aren't dealing with uneducated country boys but people well versed in the 'correct' truths to tell and where the best opportunities are.

Simple, for those of African origin deport them to Zimbabwe, Asian origin Syria. I'm sure Assad & Mugabe would be more than happy to take them in exchange for some hard currency.

I'm sure we would then suddenly find a lot of them telling us where they came from originally.

PasturesNew

I was watching the telly the other week and there was a test on there to show where somebody'd come from. The tester tested the journalist and could even tell her she'd been on holiday in Australia, near to Sydney, from the results.

So you can tell where people've grown up and been.

You do need a rapid despatch service though once you've worked it out. I'd have a bus sitting outside with the engine running....

kinger101

PasturesNew wrote: »

I was watching the telly the other week and there was a test on there to show where somebody'd come from. The tester tested the journalist and could even tell her she'd been on holiday in Australia, near to Sydney, from the results.

So you can tell where people've grown up and been.

You do need a rapid despatch service though once you've worked it out. I'd have a bus sitting outside with the engine running....

I doesn't sound very scientific, and in any case, you can't really send someone back to say Bukina Faso unless you have something more substantial than supposition to show their authorities.

I think it's easier to establish that someone doesn't come from somewhere if they don't know a local dialect or appear to not know basic facts about their own country. But obtaining irrefutable evidence of where someone is actually from is much more difficult if they've destroyed their papers.

BobQ

thequant wrote: »

Simple, for those of African origin deport them to Zimbabwe, Asian origin Syria. I'm sure Assad & Mugabe would be more than happy to take them in exchange for some hard currency.

I'm sure we would then suddenly find a lot of them telling us where they came from originally.

Amusing, but surely the serious point is that asylum seekers do not refuse to explain who they are when in country like France. They explain where they have come from and why it would be dangerous to them to send them back and make a case for being treated as a refugee.

Economic migrants travel through choice and have evidence of who they are and why they should be admitted.

Those who have lost identity papers are either illegal immigrants or need to make a case as to their status, not refuse to identify themselves.

BobQ

CLAPTON wrote: »

I don't see how this will work in practice

How do you depart a person with no passport and who is unwilling to say where he came from. We aren't dealing with uneducated country boys but people well versed in the 'correct' truths to tell and where the best opportunities are.

Agreed you have a problem but if they refuse to answer a reasonable question you should start by treating them less favourably to those that do. You do not let them wander freely and make their own camps where they like. You certainly do not treat them like you treat a genuine refugee.

CLAPTON

BobQ wrote: »

Agreed you have a problem but if they refuse to answer a reasonable question you should start by treating them less favourably to those that do. You do not let them wander freely and make their own camps where they like. You certainly do not treat them like you treat a genuine refugee.

what exactly do you do though?
do you mean imprison them for life?

we actually deport very very few people even where we know the country of origin due to all the Human Right laws

Mistermeaner

BobQ wrote: »

Amusing, but surely the serious point is that asylum seekers do not refuse to explain who they are when in country like France. They explain where they have come from and why it would be dangerous to them to send them back and make a case for being treated as a refugee.

Economic migrants travel through choice and have evidence of who they are and why they should be admitted.

Those who have lost identity papers are either illegal immigrants or need to make a case as to their status, not refuse to identify themselves.

I'm sure the economic migrants explain themselves fully and would never claim to be asylum seekers.

Torture has shown to be a reliable means of getting accurate information.

BobQ

CLAPTON wrote: »

what exactly do you do though?
do you mean imprison them for life?

we actually deport very very few people even where we know the country of origin due to all the Human Right laws

Fair point, but an unwillingness to deport them is what they are relying on. I would put them into camps and provide basic essentials. I would not call that prison, they would be free to leave if they indicated where they came from and then returned to that country. I doubt they would be prepared to stay there indefinitely.

But what would you do?