Business insurance records retention?

cottager

I haven't been able so far to find any clear guidance about how long to keep business insurance policies, records, certificates etc.

Because of the potential liability aspect, these seem to me to be rather different from the purely financial records HMRC would be concerned with for tax, PAYE and VAT. We're talking about a self-employed sole trader (my OH, who retired and ceased trading at the end of September) doing vehicle repairs and servicing with one employee.

There was always a combined motor trade policy which encompassed everything: employer liability, public liability, motor insurance (client vehicles as well as business ones - van, recovery truck - and also our private cars and motoring), business interruption, premises, contents/equipment/tools, transporting cash etc... you name it really, and it was included. Then there's a whole separate set of paperwork to do with engineering insurance stipulated by the insurers whereby ramps and other lifting equipment, compressors, jacks etc were regularly inspected to comply with safety regulations, so twice a year or more there are reports for each piece of equipment following those inspections.

The insurers were reviewed annually by the brokers, so would change reasonably regularly -- we might be with the same one for two or three years, sometimes only a year, though we could be back again with a former insurer later - it depended on the cost offered at renewal for the cover required.

Consequently there are wads of policy documents from a variety of insurers, proposals, quotations, broker correspondence, certificates, all this engineering stuff - and it goes back decades.

What of all this do I actually need to keep, and how far back?

firefox1956

I remember seeing something a year or two back from my business insurers telling me it was a requirement to keep my business insurance certificates for 40 years !!!
I can't point you to any source I am afraid........
I closed my business last year & I can tell you that I have no intention whatsoever of keeping the documents for 40 years.
HTH

cottager

firefox1956 wrote: »

I closed my business last year & I can tell you that I have no intention whatsoever of keeping the documents for 40 years.
HTH

Hah!
For starters, I don't think we'll be here in 40 years, so is OH supposed to bequeath them in his will or something?? :rotfl:

Sally_A

A few years ago, your Employers Liability details have been logged centrally at the ELTO, you may recall being asked for your ERN.

If you've stayed with the same broker all these years, they should be able to help if needed.

If you feel happier keeping some info, just make a note of the Insurer, policy number and years the policies were in force.

No need to keep the engineering inspection paperwork if you no longer use or own the equipment.

If you can't fully let go, I'd say 6 years max, which is the cut off period for a property damage claim to be made against you.

cottager

Sally_A wrote: »

A few years ago, your Employers Liability details have been logged centrally at the ELTO, you may recall being asked for your ERN.

I hadn't, but now you mention it... yes we were, by the brokers who, from my reading (now) of their form at the time, would supply it to our insurers, which presumably means it's irrelevant that we will have changed insurers since.

Sally_A wrote: »

If you've stayed with the same broker all these years, they should be able to help if needed.

Indeed, and I tried asking them about insurance record-keeping a few years ago, but for some reason couldn't seem to get a definitive answer. I'm not quite sure but thought it might be because while everything's rolled into one traders' policy, different retention-length rules applied to the different elements of it, according to the type of potential liability, i.e. employee, public, motor etc. I wasn't much wiser anyway. I could try again when they reopen in the NY, but having now made a start and got the bit between my teeth, I was hoping to spend a long weekend satisfyingly shredding and getting some of a house back that isn't littered with bulging files!

Sally_A wrote: »

If you feel happier keeping some info, just make a note of the Insurer, policy number and years the policies were in force.

That's the sort of thing I'd hoped would be enough, and instead of keeping bits of paper I was thinking of scanning to PDF, if this would be acceptable if ever required as "evidence". But it would take much less time if only a few key sheets or schedules needed scanning, than wading through entire policy documents, addenda, exceptions and small print.

Sally_A wrote: »

No need to keep the engineering inspection paperwork if you no longer use or own the equipment.

I thought not, but already scanned these -- the engineering stuff -- and will keep the PDFs for a couple of years on an "in case" basis. I was just reluctant to finally shred the physical paperwork without anyone reinforcing what I'd thought. Much of the tested equipment has been removed or sold, but with no takers so far, the ramps are still in situ, though no longer in use.

Sally_A wrote: »

If you can't fully let go, I'd say 6 years max, which is the cut off period for a property damage claim to be made against you.

Ah, I didn't know that -- really helpful, thank you.
So this would apply to, say, customers being able to claim their vehicle had been damaged? What about if they claimed they themselves had suffered an injury on the premises for some reason? - does that come under the same umbrella?

Thanks for the help.

Sally_A

A Personal Injury claim should be notified within 3 years of the incident, and should already have been reported to the insurers if you were aware of such an incident.

Be aware though, if you invite someone onto the site to dismantle the ramps, you still have a duty of care - and if they slipped they could still bring a public liability claim against you - although you appear to no longer have any insurance in place.

I take it you own the unit? If you still have buildings insurance on this, there may well be property owners insurance included.

Just make sure your husband is not tempted to use the ramps if they are out of their inspection period (6 months for lifting equipment).

The only piece of engineering paper that would be useful to anyone would be the bits that went with the compressor - on the tip of my tongue, but can't think what it was called (Written Scheme of Examination maybe?).

Vehicle insurance can be traced back via the MID.

All the booklets would be outdated now, it would be up to insurers to know the policy booklet wording that was in force at the time - but this is mainly for the rinky dinks, not for the usual straightforward claims.

I'm often presented with a big box of old insurance stuff when I visit garages and most are happy for me to tell them what can be binned.

As a broker, our records are from our new computer system (2007); but I did manage to trawl back to 1993 for someone who wanted 20+ years of NCB when they retired.

Savvy_Sue

I have a feeling that Employer's Liability is one you have to keep 'forever' - I didn't have 40 years in mind for that, but it is definitely A Long Time.

And you can see the sense of that when some conditions may only show up years later, but which might be traceable back to the workshop.

cottager

Sally_A wrote: »

A Personal Injury claim should be notified within 3 years of the incident, and should already have been reported to the insurers if you were aware of such an incident.

No, not aware of anything, but useful to know the time limit: thanks.

Be aware though, if you invite someone onto the site to dismantle the ramps, you still have a duty of care - and if they slipped they could still bring a public liability claim against you - although you appear to no longer have any insurance in place.

I take it you own the unit? If you still have buildings insurance on this, there may well be property owners insurance included.

Just make sure your husband is not tempted to use the ramps if they are out of their inspection period (6 months for lifting equipment).

And again, thanks! I'll flag up specifically the ramps to OH as he's still hoping to dispose of them rather than scrap (either way they'd need dismantling, as you say), but it looks as if it will possibly have to be something like eBay now, with buyer to organise/collect. Last inspections were coming up to 6 months ago, so we'd better have the engineers out again to carry it on for another six.

No one else would be allowed to use them: no "favours" as it's simply not worth the risk, nor is him working on anyone else's vehicles for the same reason; but while the ramps are still there I suppose it's just conceivable he might make use of one or the other if a job cropped up on one of our own that needed it, so sensible to keep it going and up to date -- and it would also be a selling point -- though I'm not sure he'd be keen on doing even ours: after the best part of 50 yrs, he's had his fill of cars! I think the compressors are now out/gone, bar one he brought home.

Yes, he owns the building and yard, and is insured with a different type of policy for the altered circumstances till such time as it's sold or whatever happens. Pretty sure it still includes public liability but will check.

I'm often presented with a big box of old insurance stuff when I visit garages and most are happy for me to tell them what can be binned.

I wish you were here!
But it's been really useful having someone here "in the know" on not only the general topic of insurance record-keeping but with knowledge of this trade too, and I'm most grateful for the advice -- I think the engineering inspection would have slipped past us if you hadn't mentioned it.

cottager

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I have a feeling that Employer's Liability is one you have to keep 'forever' - I didn't have 40 years in mind for that, but it is definitely A Long Time.

And you can see the sense of that when some conditions may only show up years later, but which might be traceable back to the workshop.

I think A Long Time too, and like firefox1956, I think I'd also heard or read 40 years somewhere a long time ago. My concern was not really what we could still be liable for, if it ever arose however many years hence, but what bits of paper I needed to keep or would be expected to produce if it did arise -- but as Sally says, there's now ELTO which I'd forgotten about.

They say:

How does ELTO work?
At the heart of the ELTO process is a centralised database - the Employers' Liability Database (ELD) - which contains all new and renewed EL insurance policies, old EL policies that have new claims made against them and all successful traces from the previous Tracing Service.
http://www.elto.org.uk/FAQs.aspx

So it seems we'll already be registered there by virtue of having had employer's liability active since ELTO came into being, in new or renewed policies. As far as older pre-ELTO policies are concerned, with other insurers, so long as I keep details of who it was with, when, and the policy numbers, that ought to be sufficient for the brokers and/or the relevant insurers to dig out the necessary, as Sally suggested.

To play it safe I will probably still keep some of the past 6 years' worth of paperwork. That still leaves at least another 15 years' of older stuff to shred that I can lay my hands on straight away, and possibly more hidden away that I've forgotten about. I weed financial records reasonably regularly as tax years pass, but always hung on to the insurance stuff, never really knowing what the requirement was except, as you say, it was A Long Time!

Many thanks for the help.

Mistral001

I do not get this. Is the OP suggesting that out-of-date insurance policy documents should be kept?

Savvy_Sue

Mistral001 wrote: »

I do not get this. Is the OP suggesting that out-of-date insurance policy documents should be kept?

We certainly have kept our EL certificates at work, longer than we keep our financial records.

I wasn't aware of ELTO at all, but then we've been with the same broker for a number of years so they wouldn't have needed to ask for details of previous insurers!