Manhole Cover Access

GoldenShadow

Hi

We bought the house a few months ago but the Household board didn't seem to be the right place for my query.

We have several manhole covers in our garden. I know that if, in an emergency/some serious blockage, access is required by someone, then they have the right to just go to the drains and do whatever.

My query is as follows... We live on quite a busy main road, have dogs, and therefore prefer to lock our side gate, also for security reasons. If someone required access and basically smashed through our gate because it was locked, is that just tough luck for us, or would we have any chance of getting them to pay for the damage if left in a really bad way?

Sometimes a company come and do work and need to lift covers to relieve pressure but obviously as its not an emergency they send us a letter and we leave the gate unlocked for when they need it. I guess in my head there is grey ground where people could probably hold off an hour until someone comes home, but won't, and I am assuming we will just have to buy a new gate if they say it was an emergency and damage it?

There is nothing in our deeds (ex council) to say access has to be unrestricted as we did check (and ask water company).

Doozergirl

Nothing is ever that exciting with drainage. It will always wait. You'd have to be involved in experiencing the problem in some way if it were directly outside your house, so you'd probably be the party contacting the water company.

G_M

O doubt they would smash through the gate. They'd proboly ring the bell then go away and come back another time.

But if they've always written to you first to arrange acess, what makes you think this will change?

As for the question, if they did smash the gate, you would write requesting the cost of repair and they'd almost certainly pay. Eventually.

davidmcn

GoldenShadow wrote: »

There is nothing in our deeds to say access has to be unrestricted.

So is there anything in the deeds about access?

CLAPTON

Is this an actual problem i.e. has some-one (who) already requested access?

In my experience access is very rarely required to drains etc.

marksoton

Wherever possible a water team would access your lateral/s from the trunk sewer which is no doubt running along the main road.

If this wasn't possible it would be a polite knock on the door and if no answer a business card left asking you to call.

Very worst case would be a WIA notice being served.

That's how we do it and i'd like to think so would others. Operatives smashing through any property would be up the road pretty damn quick.

GoldenShadow

G_M wrote: »

O doubt they would smash through the gate. They'd proboly ring the bell then go away and come back another time.

But if they've always written to you first to arrange acess, what makes you think this will change?

As for the question, if they did smash the gate, you would write requesting the cost of repair and they'd almost certainly pay. Eventually.

I don't mean the company who do the cleaning, I mean people up the road who's drains join on our property if they decide to have a go at fixing things themselves.

Basically, the other week someone down the road told me some big whoppers about how our area routinely floods very badly, all the manhole covers lift up and sewerage flows everywhere, we've bought a problem house etc. Turns out none of it is true according to my neighbour (who has lived here over 50 years, the person giving the info only three).

They seem to be seeking us out to try and play games with.I am wondering if they will be difficult in other respects, so just trying to get an idea of what to expect re required access. I assume they can have a go at fixing issues themselves, but would rather be present after hearing of other 'difficulties' with this family, plus I know most of the drains are shared so I know the water company are more than willing to come out immediately eg. people don't need to fix it themselves/mess around on my property if the water company will do it.

davidmcn wrote: »

So is there anything in the deeds about access?

OK, so I didn't really mention it because my terminology around documents is probably wrong! So the property is ex council, and there is ancient conveyancing(?) which says that the neighbour should have access if they need to do their property repairs, chimney repairs, drains etc. We nearly bought another ex council with no manhole covers and it said the same spiel, it just says if your neighbours require it in an emergency they can seek access, but nothing specific about the manhole covers or that access should be unrestricted (or sought by asking, mind).

CLAPTON wrote: »

Is this an actual problem i.e. has some-one (who) already requested access?

In my experience access is very rarely required to drains etc.

Not just yet, but if you see my reply to GM, I think a family up the road are enjoying taking the mick (they literally told us everyone owns sandbags and we should buy 100 in quick before xmas), and I want to make sure I know more re access in case they start trying it on just to be a pain.

We have called the water company out twice for standing water in the pipes under the covers so far. We now know which pipes are ours, and these are not getting blocked, it seems to be people further up the road blocking their bits and then this eventually blocking the shared bit. Everyone else's goes into shared pipes into our bit if that makes sense, and ours comes in separately and joins the shared. Ours are always fine when checked, its just the shared bits which seem to have the issues. One chap who came to sort it said he would leave it and let the other people get back ups, only calling if it is affecting us, because then maybe the people will start caring that they're causing blockages..! Advantage to being at the end I suppose, its only if the bit from our property to the main road gets blocked that we are in trouble according to the company. Still, I've just been checking it weekly and calling the company if there seems to be an issue (hence two call outs in three months).

davidmcn

GoldenShadow wrote: »

OK, so I didn't really mention it because my terminology around documents is probably wrong! So the property is ex council, and there is ancient conveyancing(?) which says that the neighbour should have access if they need to do their property repairs, chimney repairs, drains etc. We nearly bought another ex council with no manhole covers and it said the same spiel, it just says if your neighbours require it in an emergency they can seek access, but nothing specific about the manhole covers or that access should be unrestricted (or sought by asking, mind).

Ok, but if you want advice about what the respective rights and obligations are, you'll need to quote the "spiel" rather than just paraphrase it. Access in the case of emergency generally means forcing entry if necessary, because it's, well, an emergency.

marksoton

GoldenShadow wrote: »

I don't mean the company who do the cleaning, I mean people up the road who's drains join on our property if they decide to have a go at fixing things themselves.
Tell them to FO
Basically, the other week someone down the road told me some big whoppers about how our area routinely floods very badly, all the manhole covers lift up and sewerage flows everywhere, we've bought a problem house etc. Turns out none of it is true according to my neighbour (who has lived here over 50 years, the person giving the info only three). Duly note any further comments from liar neighbour then. Historic flooding can be easily searched.

They seem to be seeking us out to try and play games with.I am wondering if they will be difficult in other respects, so just trying to get an idea of what to expect re required access. Whatever for?! I assume they can have a go at fixing issues themselves, but would rather be present after hearing of other 'difficulties' with this family, plus I know most of the drains are shared so I know the water company are more than willing to come out immediately eg. people don't need to fix it themselves/mess around on my property if the water company will do it. Most drains are, again FO is your response. Or simply enquire why...



OK, so I didn't really mention it because my terminology around documents is probably wrong! So the property is ex council, and there is ancient conveyancing(?) which says that the neighbour should have access if they need to do their property repairs, chimney repairs, drains etc. We nearly bought another ex council with no manhole covers and it said the same spiel, it just says if your neighbours require it in an emergency they can seek access, but nothing specific about the manhole covers or that access should be unrestricted (or sought by asking, mind). Did your own solicitor not flag any of this?!





We have called the water company out twice for standing water in the pipes under the covers so far. We now know which pipes are ours, and these are not getting blocked, it seems to be people further up the road blocking their bits and then this eventually blocking the shared bit. Everyone else's goes into shared pipes into our bit if that makes sense, and ours comes in separately and joins the shared. Ours are always fine when checked, its just the shared bits which seem to have the issues. One chap who came to sort it said he would leave it and let the other people get back ups, only calling if it is affecting us, because then maybe the people will start caring that they're causing blockages..! Advantage to being at the end I suppose, its only if the bit from our property to the main road gets blocked that we are in trouble according to the company. Still, I've just been checking it weekly and calling the company if there seems to be an issue (hence two call outs in three months).

Dear me. Strongly worded letter to the relevant water board.

GoldenShadow

davidmcn wrote: »

Ok, but if you want advice about what the respective rights and obligations are, you'll need to quote the "spiel" rather than just paraphrase it. Access in the case of emergency generally means forcing entry if necessary, because it's, well, an emergency.

That's all OK, though, and not my query. I did go through it with my solicitor, but at the time I didn't think to ask about what happens if access was forced because I didn't expect to have anyone down the road decide to play us around and therefore make me so paranoid about such things.

There is nothing about access being unrestricted, but I am unaware if there is other info/legislation which might trump what the council put in when they sold it off (such as now all shared rains are water company responsibility, despite what docs might say).

marksoton wrote: »

Dear me. Strongly worded letter to the relevant water board.

Thanks. Solicitor didn't know there were manhole covers as did not visit the property himself. I didn't ask for more than general 'help me understand the council conveyancing' at the time because I didn't really forsee any issues or know what issues may occur. Being a first time buyer means there is lots of learning going on as we go!

So realistically, I can say 'no need to come and faff with your own rods, I will call out the water company for free' and that is a perfectly legitimate response to stop them coming in and faffing about of their own accord? When we have called the water co, they offer to come out immediately (first time was a Sunday afternoon) or at a more convenient time, so they have been very good. I don't mind checking the covers and giving them a bell, despite what first chap said when he unblocked it, would just like to know how justified I am to tell people I will call water co instead of them doing whatever...

marksoton

GoldenShadow wrote: »

So realistically, I can say 'no need to come and faff with your own rods, I will call out the water company for free' and that is a perfectly legitimate response to stop them coming in and faffing about of their own accord? When we have called the water co, they offer to come out immediately (first time was a Sunday afternoon) or at a more convenient time, so they have been very good. I don't mind checking the covers and giving them a bell, despite what first chap said when he unblocked it, would just like to know how justified I am to tell people I will call water co instead of them doing whatever...

If your water company are sending out contractors willingly on a regular basis that suggests to me they have a known problem on their network and they are clearing it as a short term fix.

I certainly wouldn't be letting anyone else in to try and sort it.