Being evicted from sublet (which could prevent major essential surgery)

avoidingeviction

I live with my partner in a two bedroom house. We are subletting from the other occupants of the house ("live in landlords"), who in turn are renting from an external landlord. We could really do with some help in establishing what sort of tenancy agreement we have, as the Shelter website says that as subtenants we could have almost any type of tenancy providing the right conditions are met - are we excluded occupiers or tenants?

I am due to have major surgery towards the end of January, a fact which the live in landlord has been aware of for several weeks. I will be off work for several weeks and unable to lift anything for 6 weeks i.e. I will be in no fit state to move house. If I do not have the surgery on that date, I will lose the relevant internal organ. In a rather un-wonderful twist of fate, I have previously had to postpone surgery because I was being made homeless. It has taken 7 months to get a new surgery date.

My partner is named on the tenancy agreement, but I am not. However, it was agreed verbally prior to the tenancy that I would be moving in to my partner's bedroom around a month after my partner did. I have been there since the summer.

Yesterday (27th December), the live-in landlords decided to send us the following email

Re: Notice

Dear [my partner's name],

We feel that our time as housemates has come to an end. As per our agreement please accept this as your 5 weeks notice, with your last day of tenancy being 31st January 2016.

Please reply to confirm you have received this email.

Kind Regards,
[live in landlord's name]

The original tenancy agreement reads as follows

Sublease Agreement

This agreement is dated [date]

This agreement is made for the sublease of a double room, located at [place within house] between the tenant [live in landlord's name] and the subtenant [my partner's name - I am not on the lease]. The house is located at [address].

The tenant warrants that the tenant's landlord has consented to the sublease.

Subtenant will take possession on [date] at [time] for a minimum of 4 months, ending [date] at [time]. This agreement will continue after this end date unless either party gives the other a minimum of 4 weeks' written notice.

Subtenant will pay the tenant the sum of [amount] per month, to be received by the tenant by the 1st day of each month. This includes rent, council tax, internet, gas, electric, water and TV licence.

If rent is not received by the 5th day of each month, a late fee of £50 per week will be added to the amount of rent due, until received.

Rent is to be paid by transfer to [live in landlord's name and bank details]. A security deposit of [amount] shall be paid by subtenant to tenant. It will be held by 'The Deposit Protection Services'. Upon termination of the agreement, the tenant will examine the condition of the house. Any damage to the house (beyond normal wear and tear) caused by the subtenant, or nonpayment of rent, or outstanding late payment fees, will be deducted from the amount of security deposit to be returned to subtenant.

The tenant agrees not to access the subtenant's room without prior consent with at least 24 hours' notice, unless in the case of an emergency.

[signatures]

We are not in arrears, we have not caused any damage, and we have generally not done anything unreasonable. However, it has become increasingly clear that they do not really like sharing a house and we are there purely to make up the shortfall of the rent (which we believe to be considerably less than the proportion we are paying, given their respective incomes and spending habits, and refusal to tell us how much the total rent of the house is). They are, in essence, evicting us on a whim.

What we need to know is what sort of tenancy agreement we have - i.e. if we are tenants or excluded occupiers, and therefore whether or not this is a lawful eviction.

Many thanks in advance.

whitewing

What a shame that you now have this extra worry on top of the health problems.

I can't comment on the agreement. My concern though is that if you are able to force yourselves to stay, will it be that conducive to a full recovery? A two bed household for presumably four adults is going to be crowded if there is a conflict.

Miss_Samantha

Hi there,

Your agreement suggests that you are a tenant.

However, since your landlord is a 'live in' landlord your tenancy is not an AST and is what is known as an "excluded tenancy", which means the same as being a lodger when it comes to eviction.

Your landlord will have the right to prevent you from accessing the house once the notice has expired.

If you cannot come to an arrangement with him, I would think that your best option would be to move ASAP, before you have the surgery.

pmlindyloo

According to this link

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-a-home/subletting-and-lodging/subletting/rights-of-subtenants-who-live-with-their-landlord/

you have a fixed term agreement as per your quote and they have given you the correct notice for possession.

Again, according to the link your landlords do not have to go to court for possession but they can. They can also change the locks whilst you are out.

From what you say everything has been done correctly by your landlord.

The only options I believe you have is to ask your landlord for an extension because of your health problems (get it in writing) OR
to move in with relatives/friend early (before the operation) whilst you can still manage the move. Or you could do this on your own and then your partner move out to somewhere new and you move there when you are well.

Presumably you are going to need some support when out of hospital so arranging this now seems a sensible idea.

Hope everything goes well.

G_M

avoidingeviction wrote: »

I live with my partner in a two bedroom house. We are subletting from the other occupants of the house ("live in landlords"), who in turn are renting from an external landlord. We could really do with some help in establishing what sort of tenancy agreement we have, as the Shelter website says that as subtenants we could have almost any type of tenancy providing the right conditions are met - are we excluded occupiers or tenants?
you live with, and share space with, your landlords, so you are almost certainly Excluded Occupiers I'm afraid

I am due to have major surgery towards the end of January, a fact which the live in landlord has been aware of for several weeks. I will be off work for several weeks and unable to lift anything for 6 weeks i.e. I will be in no fit state to move house. If I do not have the surgery on that date, I will lose the relevant internal organ. In a rather un-wonderful twist of fate, I have previously had to postpone surgery because I was being made homeless. It has taken 7 months to get a new surgery date.
I feel for you. The irony could be the basis for a sitcom if it weren't tragic.

My partner is named on the [STRIKE]tenancy[/STRIKE] agreement, but I am not.
I doubt that makes much difference in law

However, it was agreed verbally prior to the[STRIKE] tenancy[/STRIKE]occupnacy that I would be moving in to my partner's bedroom around a month after my partner did. I have been there since the summer.

Yesterday (27th December), the live-in landlords decided to send us the following email

The original tenancy agreement reads as follows
......
What we need to know is what sort of tenancy agreement we have - i.e. if we are tenants or excluded occupiers, and therefore whether or not this is a lawful eviction.

Critical question - is there a lock on your door? Does your direct landlord have access to your bedroom?

At issue is whether you have 'exclusive occupation' of any part of the property. If you do that greatly strengthens the argument that you are tenants.

The fact that the agreements says: "The tenant agrees not to access the subtenant's room without prior consent with at least 24 hours' notice,..." adds further weight to the argument.

As does the repeated use of the word "tenant" in the agreement.

As well as the undertaking to use 'The Deposit Protection Services'which would be compulsory if you were a tenant (but can be used voluntarily for Excluded Occupiers).

I guess your options are:

* find somewhere else to live fast, move immediately (probobly lose your deposit for lack of notice), and then have the surgery

* postpone the surgery (clearly a very unattractive option)

* start planning to move, go in for the surgery, and leave you partner to deal with things (with help from friends/family?)

* argue you are tenants and stay put. Leave it to the last minute before raising this (otherwise you might get a S21 immediately). Don't reply to the email (you could claim never received?), though I imagine as you share a house maintaining a claim of ignorance might be hard!

Once the issue arises, quote the Housing Act 1988 which says you are entitled to 2 months notice via a S21.

After all, it is your landlord who has stupidly described you as tenants, and laid out many of the rights that tenants are entitled to (but to which lodgers are not), extending those rights to the notice period is, arguably, logical.

But there is no definitive answer to your question, though your position is weak:

What we need to know is what sort of tenancy agreement we have - i.e. if we are tenants or excluded occupiers, and therefore whether or not this is a lawful eviction.

Only a court could ultimately decide.

So bluff.

ps - the lock on the door thing is an important factor.

pps - the other approach of course is my classic tea and cakes. Sit down and explain your position and ask for an extra 2 months (or whatever) with a promise you'll leave at that time. They surely can't be totally heartless.......?

avoidingeviction

GM wrote:

Critical question - is there a lock on your door? Does your direct landlord have access to your bedroom?

At issue is whether you have 'exclusive occupation' of any part of the property. If you do that greatly strengthens the argument that you are tenants.

Thanks very much for all your help.

When we moved in, there was a lock on the bedroom door, but we were not given keys to it as they had apparently been lost at some point in the past. However, we could lock it from the inside.

Part was through our time there, the door managed to lock itself one night and, with verbal permission, we took the decision to drill out the lock (done ourselves, with own tools)

Shortly after that, the lock began to "stick" and we were concerned that we might end up locked out again. As such, we replaced the lock with one of the exact same style at our own expense (the live in landlord is aware that we have done this). That means that we do now have a bedroom door that is (theoretically) lockable from both the outside and the inside. However, the door has clearly had a number of locks fitted to it over the years and it wouldn't (doesn't) take much to push it open.

Unfortunately we have no family in the region (closest would be a 2 hour train away) and no friends who have a spare room, so we really do have to find somewhere to live if we cannot stay where we are. We are in an area of an acute housing shortage, which means that good properties are not easy to come by (and they are never at reasonable prices).

I'd be willing to move (I'm not keen on either the location or the live-in landlords) if we can find somewhere suitable, though the timing is a complete pain, but my partner wants to stay until they get a court order. My partner is of the view that the property represents good value for money relative to what we'll be able to find elsewhere (particularly at short notice) and that the immediate landlord - who appears not to have a lot of legal nous - shouldn't benefit from such a spiteful move.

ManuelG

avoidingeviction wrote: »

I'd be willing to move (I'm not keen on either the location or the live-in landlords) if we can find somewhere suitable, though the timing is a complete pain, but my partner wants to stay until they get a court order. My partner is of the view that the property represents good value for money relative to what we'll be able to find elsewhere (particularly at short notice) and that the immediate landlord - who appears not to have a lot of legal nous - shouldn't benefit from such a spiteful move.

I would suggest, avoiding the legal arguments, that if you are in a position to move it's probably best... for you. The stress of staying could be far worse than the stress of moving.

Best of luck anyway, however it turns out.

xylophone

Move as soon as possible - the stress of living with an unwilling landlord would hardly help your recovery?

Money_maker

How is the immediate landlord being spiteful? The notice you received sounded fair to me.

HappyMJ

I would go to the council regarding your problem.

You can be rehoused temporarily in accommodation very quickly and once you recover you can then move back into private rental again. You can't stay in temporary accommodation for long. For one thing it won't be suitable for long term occupation but it will do to put a roof over your head and somewhere to sleep. You'll have to pay for it and it's more expensive than a normal tenancy.

You health care comes first. Even if you have to stay in the hospital longer then do it that way and let your partner sort out the moving.

You don't need to lift anything employ a "man and a van" to move your stuff for you.

It will cost money so if you can I would get loans and credit cards sorted now to tide you over until you recover and can return to work.

Do not ever postpone surgery at any cost. Go into debt and declare bankruptcy if you have to. Do anything you can to sort your health out.

G_M

avoidingeviction wrote: »

....
I'd be willing to move (I'm not keen on either the location or the live-in landlords) if we can find somewhere suitable, though the timing is a complete pain, but my partner wants to stay until they get a court order. My partner is of the view that the property represents good value for money relative to what we'll be able to find elsewhere (particularly at short notice) and that the immediate landlord - who appears not to have a lot of legal nous - shouldn't benefit from such a spiteful move.

I would certainly start looking, and move if you possibly can.

The financial arguement is irrelevant - you will have to move at some point, so will lose the " good value for money" anyway.

Similarly, staying put as 'revenge' for the LL's spiteful behavior is not a sensible motive - again, you will have to move at some point so think of what's best you, not what's worst for them.

Having said that, if between now and your operation date you are unable to find anywhere, then make use of the LL's apparent lack of legal nous and claim a tenant's protection from eviction. But bear in mind this may, or may not work, either as a bluff (LL may simply not believe you, or care), or as a legal tactic (thin legal ice).

So with you in hospital it would be a stressful time for your partner, not to mention yourself wondering where you'd be discharged to.

And do try the tea'ncake approach too....