Why do people resent buy-to-letters so much?

mwpt

ukcarper wrote: »

As I said before in relation to earnings have increase by 60% (after checking latest nationwide release I see its 50%)

Food has gone down in relation to earnings. Your figure of 60% is irrelevant even if it's correct for whatever time scale you appear to have chosen.

This argument comes up again and again and I'm stumped as to why a seemingly intelligent bunch of people can't see how stupid it is.

Please come back to us when food prices start to increase by multiples of wages, when the teacher who lives next door to you takes out debt to buy up the food stock then hands it to you at higher prices. Then I will express sufficient outrage.

ukcarper

mwpt wrote: »

Food has gone down in relation to earnings. Your figure of 60% is irrelevant even if it's correct for whatever time scale you appear to have chosen.

This argument comes up again and again and I'm stumped as to why a seemingly intelligent bunch of people can't see how stupid it is.

Please come back to us when food prices start to increase by multiples of wages, when the teacher who lives next door to you takes out debt to buy up the food stock then hands it to you at higher prices. Then I will express sufficient outrage.

Overall there is not a shortage of food in this country as can be seen by the amount of waste, if there was a shortage prices would increase as can be seen when we have a shortage of certain foods. The figures I use are based on Nationwide figures and are in relation to long term average this is house prices not rent but I believe there is a correlation. If there was a shortage of wheat the price of bread would soon increase.

mwpt

ukcarper wrote: »

Overall there is not a shortage of food in this country as can be seen by the amount of waste, if there was a shortage prices would increase as can be seen when we have a shortage of certain foods. The figures I use are based on Nationwide figures and are in relation to long term average. If there was a shortage of wheat the price of bread would soon increase.

Yes, and people would resent their neighbour who took out an IO mortgage to buy up a chunk of the local bread supply and then sold it back to his neighbours at higher prices.

But that isn't happening and nor is it likely to happen, because food markets function largely like capital free markets are meant to function and things have got better over time for every one. The opposite of the housing market in the areas I care about.

ukcarper

mwpt wrote: »

Yes, and people would resent their neighbour who took out an IO mortgage to buy up a chunk of the local bread supply and then sold it back to his neighbours at higher prices.

But that isn't happening and nor is it likely to happen, because food markets function largely like capital free markets are meant to function and things have got better over time for every one. The opposite of the housing market in the areas I care about.

That assumes everybody who rents wants to buy and is in a position to buy. You are saying rents have increased by multiples of earns which they haven't. I'm struggling to find historic rental figures but between June 2013 and now they have increased less than 7%.

cells

2015 will see the addition of over 440,000 households to the PRS

If anything the rental sector is growing faster and faster

The reason is over-regulated owner mortgages meaning much fewer FTBs can get access to mortgages than otherwise would be possible

mwpt

ukcarper wrote: »

That assumes everybody who rents wants to buy and is in a position to buy. You are saying rents have increased by multiples of earns which they haven't. I'm struggling to find historic rental figures but between June 2013 and now they have increased less than 7%.

I don't think I mentioned rents. I was talking about asset prices. 77% of renters would prefer to own, apparently. BTL are in competition for the assets these people want to own except BTL can bid higher prices.

mwpt

cells wrote: »

2015 will see the addition of over 440,000 households to the PRS

If anything the rental sector is growing faster and faster

The reason is over-regulated owner mortgages meaning much fewer FTBs can get access to mortgages than otherwise would be possible

I'm not aware of the history of mortgage rationing. Could you describe the mortgage market relative to historic levels rather than the frivolous lending levels during 2000-2007?

We have a range of product from 95% and on, at the cheapest rates in history. Is it just that people are now not able to borrow at high multiples?

cells

mwpt wrote: »

I'm not aware of the history of mortgage rationing. Could you describe the mortgage market relative to historic levels rather than the frivolous lending levels during 2000-2007?

We have a range of product from 95% and on, at the cheapest rates in history. Is it just that people are now not able to borrow at high multiples?

afaik ownership peaked in ~2005 so if you think and want mortgages from the 1990s or 1980s your going to need to accept a much lower level of ownership becuase there was a lot less owners in the 80s and 90s

simply put we need a return of interest only and a return of self cert (just ticking a box that says I am confident I can manage the mortgage and accept the risks. Rather than fake payslip self certs)


so it really is a matter of higher regs = less owners

Conrad

cells wrote: »

so it really is a matter of higher regs = less owners

My pet subject since 2008.


Vince Cable then urging we need a return to old fashioned lending standards, typical of someone at the top totally out of touch with the real world effects this had on the ground.

cells

the bit the crash wishers do not understand or know is that BTL (via mortgages) is only a small piece of the pie when it comes to the growth of the rental sector

2015

+440,000 rented homes

only ~ 100,000 BTL mortgages issued to buy new property

Also a lot of BTL landlords who buy property buy off other BTL landlords (~95% of my purchases were from other landlords) which means that a lot of the 100,000 BTL mortgages given to landlords is to buy property from other landlords

basically even if BTL mortgages did not exist then last year the sector would have still grown by at least 340,000 units!

What do the crash-wishers have to say about that?


Its so ironic that the landlords are the ones trying to help the renters by calling for more building and easier residential mortgages.

EDIT: Stamp duty probably also needs to be rolled back as its surely having an impact on both FTBs and transactions. Properties that had £2.5k stamp duty in London now have £15k stamp duty