Money Moral Dilemma: Should residents turn over their Winter Fuel Payment?

chanz4

should give it them as a voucher, over 12 years been in the industry hardly any used them for heating. Rather they used them for Christmas presents

meknowalot-51

You want to ask these pensioners for their money for heating allowance.The're in charity accomodation and there pensioners,how bad do you think they feel?Then you walk up and ask for their little windfall,my answer is leave them alone.If you feel that strongly about it then you could ask that the moneys returned to government.I hope your not collecting a wage at this charity?

happyinflorida

You're charging them rent which includes their heating costs, so they don't pay separately for heating.

So is the rent you are charging higher than usual for renting in this area?

Which if the answer is yes, then they should be allowed their fuel payment.

I don't think you are charging them less than the going rate and you're not partially covering their fuel costs are you? I doubt it.

How much money did your charity make last year? Was it in the £millions? I know of many charities that make millions and I think it is a bit of a cheek that you are even considering doing this and asking this question.

When you start paying tax on the millions you make, because as a charity you remain tax free, then you can start asking questions. How much is your CEO paid? Is it over £135K per year like most are paid now, or far more? This I find disgusting and I've stopped giving to all charities with fat cat CEO's.

Where's your charity to these people who stand to get a little back for once?

Tall_Ian

Believe it or not there are many volunteers who give up large amounts of time up and down this land for Almshouse charities so that residents can get heavily subsidised rent - and I mean signifcantly cheaper than the market rent. Why not find out online about almshous trusts rather than making unfoudned allegations based on ignorance? A quick search would have found you the almshouse association which would have allayed all your fears - it's worth a look as it might make you proud of our charitable heritage in this country and the difference it still makes today.

Often residents could not have otherwise afforded to stay locally, some have been in long term private rented accomodation but the landlord had decided to sell, and they could not afford the increased rent of anywhere else locally.

For those residents on housing benefit who don't pay their own rent, they pay no heating costs, wow! Imagine how you would feel to not have to pay heating costs and how much extra spending money you would have as a result. Those paying their own rent are even better off as they also save from not paying a market rent.

I think many if not all the trustees (all unpaid volunteers as is normal) are really pleased that the residents don't have to worry about the cost of heating, don't need to worry about their accomodation, and can afford a higher standard of living than if they were in any other form of accomodation.

Almshouse trusts just provide subsidised accomodation, nothing else - but they need to be well managed so they can survive for hundreds more years - and that means balancing the books.

If the charity is paying for the heating, then morally why wouldn't the tenants want to forward heating grants to the charity rather than spending it on something else? And after all, this is supposed to be a moral dilemma - and I think it is a good one, because let's be honest, many of us would be tempted to keep the money.

I am geuniely shocked at some of the selfiish responses on here - and all I can say is that I am very grateful that a large number of people, even today are extremely generous with their time and money (many not that well off themselves).

And isn't it amazing, over 300 years after a generous benefactor founded the trust, people who could not otherwise afford to stay living locally in their old age are enabled to do so in lovely, well-cared for accomodation. If only more poeple were charitably minded for others (rather than demanding charity), this country would be a much better place.

As a moral dilemma, this is a good one - morally I think it is unarguable that if somebody else is genuinely paying for your heating, the money shoud be passed on. But the dilemma is that many of us would be very tempted to find a justification not to pass it on because it would come in very handy. I am just shocked (and genuinely so) at the aggressive way many respondents have argued for keeping the money. It would be a lot more honest to say"they can ask, but I don't have to pass it on and I want to keep it for myself".

A similar dilemma might be "a friend happily gives me a lift for which my work pays me mileage - should I give some or all of it to my friend?"

Richie-from-the-Boro

I don't agree with much posted here including the usual wishy washy responses. I'd be much happier if the secret charity concerned asked them to repay the WFA to the government, of course that's not what they want, they just want a moral [STRIKE]blackmail[/STRIKE] justification for filling their own greedy pockets with money paid by the taxpayers, hence the reason its a voluntary 'invitation to pay'. Just one more pig in the trough - its only moral and right if I get my skinny grasping hands on that cash, no one else, me me me - only me !

The.Far.Tall.Knight

Kabloomybuzz wrote: »

The fact that they're in sheltered housing suggests that they're vulnerable adults.
The fact that they receive a winter fuel payment shows they are on a low income

The fact that their fuel costs is included in their rent is by the by... The winter fuel allowance they receive directly is a top up that can be used to help them to pay that rent and indirectly their fuel. It can help them to pay for their food which is another form of fuel when you think about it...

Once the money is in their hands it's theirs to spend on what they see fit. You can suggest that they donate some of it to a charity of their choice.... but you have no right to demand it. Within their tangy agreement their fuel is included in their rent. That is the legal contract.

The winter fuel allowance (£200 for over 62yrs but under 80yrs) (£300 for over 80's): is not means tested, a retired company director on a 75k a year salary still gets it. They also get an additional £25 paid as a Cold Weather Payment when the temperature is 0°C (32°F) or below for seven days in a row.
You can get it if you're working or claiming a benefit. You may get a Winter Fuel Payment for winter 2015/2016 if the following apply: you have reached the qualifying age which means you were born on or before 5 January 1953. You may even get Winter Fuel Payment if you live in another European Economic country or Switzerland but are a UK citizen! however you can’t get the payment if you live in Cyprus, France,Gibraltar,Greece,Malta,Portugal or Spain because the average winter temperature is higher than the warmest region of the UK.

But back to the question, they are living in a sheltered housing complex entirely funded by charity, yes they should give it (but that's just my opinion)

The.Far.Tall.Knight

chanz4 wrote: »

should give it them as a voucher, over 12 years been in the industry hardly any used them for heating. Rather they used them for Christmas presents

20 years customer service in electricity and gas and I can vouch for that, back in the day (pre-1999) they got it awarded directly to their electricity account, it all went off the rails when deregulation happened and it became too costly and complicated to deal directly the the REC's so it gets paid directly to their bank account and yes most dont use it for its intended purpose but I can wager how many use it on luxury or non essential items, many times I have had the dubious pleasure of reviewing a statement of means form from someone that says they are unable to pay their electricity/gas debt but don't ever recall seeing the DWP/WFA being shown in the income section, they can also apply for the warm home discount (supported by all of the big 6 and a lot of others) that gives them an additional £140 off their fuel bill. If they are over 60 and in receipt of certain benefits it's an automatically awarded additional the the WFA from the DWP! under 60's can apply too! Check this out:
https://www.gov.uk/the-warm-home-discount-scheme/what-youll-get
click on the link for your supplier on this
https://www.gov.uk/the-warm-home-discount-scheme/eligibility

Contact the Warm Home Discount Team if you're unsure but believe you qualify.

Warm Home Discount Scheme
Telephone: 0345 603 9439
Monday to Friday, 8:30am to 4:30pm
Write to them at:
Warm Home Discount Team
Pink Zone, 1st Floor
Peel Park
Brunel Way
Blackpool
FY4 5ES

The following suppliers are part of the scheme:
Atlantic
British Gas
Co-operative energy
EDF Energy
E.ON
Equipower (Ebico)
Equigas (Ebico)
First Utility
Manweb - see ScottishPower
M&S Energy
npower
OVO
Sainsbury’s Energy - see British Gas
Scottish Gas - see British Gas
Scottish Hydro
ScottishPower
Southern Electric
SSE
SWALEC
Utilita
Utility Warehouse

purpleweasel

tallgirld wrote: »

Why don't your work a whole month FREE OF CHARGE to help your charity? That should cover it!

Leaving aside the fact that many of these workers are already volunteers, I think you're being a bit nasty with little evidence. I assume you regularly give your time to charity?



"A fuel voucher would be a better idea, this way it would be spent as intended or not spent at all. "


This sadly assumes you can trust the fuel companies to play the game honestly...

Cardew

Tall_Ian wrote: »

I am amazed at some of the responses on this thread. We have little information, and a lot of presumptions that the question is about housing associations, with very assertive and dogmatic statements based on those presumptions..

I am a trustee of a 300 year old Almshouse trust which provides heaviuly subsidised accomodation for elderly people with all heating and hot water included.

Tall_Ian I get the impression that it is your Almshouse trust that is the subject of the original post; is that correct?


The trouble with the first post is that it gives no detail of the type of sheltered accommodation or the rents charged. This can range from rundown 'dosshouses' to the wonderful Peabody Trust - a charitable institution - in London that provides sheltered accommodation* in very fashionable parts of London.


http://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/may/31/socialexclusion.urbanregeneration


http://www.peabody.org.uk/our-neighbourhoods/islington/alleyn-house/about


http://www.peabody.org.uk/our-neighbourhoods/kensington-chelsea/dalgarno-gardens/about

*Much of their housing stock are rental flats, but tenants can move to sheltered accommodation.

Maureen_Jay

:T:TI think they should hand it back to the charity if they have lived there for more than six months. Otherwise, they may have paid heating bills for another accommodation. It is a winter Fuel payment and if they have not paid for fuel then it should be returned. Bit like claiming it and living in Spain!