An Experiment in Basic Income

CLAPTON

why would it require another currency?

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

why would it require another currency?

I think the idea is that you prevent bribes by forcing public servants to spend different money from everyone else. This makes regular money valueless to public servants and so makes them unbribeable.

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

I think the idea is that you prevent bribes by forcing public servants to spend different money from everyone else. This makes regular money valueless to public servants and so makes them unbribeable.

seems a mad idea but what has it to do with a basic income?

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

seems a mad idea but what has it to do with a basic income?

Nothing at all as far as I can see. It's just a rabbit hole we've gone down.

Life would be very boring without rabbit holes IMHO.

antrobus

zagubov wrote: »

I see the problem. How do we isolate the study group?....

Suggest that the Finns establish a colony on the moon?

zagubov wrote: »

...Does €800 a month go far in Finland?....

€800 is about £575 or £6,900 a year. JSA is about £4,000 a year. So you could get by on that in the UK. I think prices are overall a bit higher in Finland, but it should be enough for subsistence.

http://www.mytravelcost.com/Finland/compare-with-United-Kingdom/

That's without taking housing costs into account, of course.

zagubov wrote: »

... In the UK, social and economic experiments used to be carried out in Swindon (cable TV, electronic money) as it was remote enough from other shopping areas to be studied in isolation.).

I don't know how Finland measures in terms of remoteness from other EU members.

zagubov wrote: »

...Does it require a local currency that can't be exported clandestinely?

If it does, it ain't gonna work in Finland.

zagubov

CLAPTON wrote: »

seems a mad idea but what has it to do with a basic income?

It was about whether an area and its economic transactions could be isolated for study.

antrobus wrote: »

Suggest that the Finns establish a colony on the moon?



€800 is about £575 or £6,900 a year. JSA is about £4,000 a year. So you could get by on that in the UK. I think prices are overall a bit higher in Finland, but it should be enough for subsistence.

http://www.mytravelcost.com/Finland/compare-with-United-Kingdom/

That's without taking housing costs into account, of course.

I think Scandinavia has high housing standards and therefore costs may be high, but that's only my guess.

I don't know how Finland measures in terms of remoteness from other EU members.
It has a different currency from all its neighbours and no borders shared with other eurozone nations.

If it does, it ain't gonna work in Finland.

Each country prints slightly different euronotes IIRC. I'm not suggesting the money wouold have to be physically different in a controlled economic trial but having a way to track its moveement may be advantageous.

CLAPTON

zagubov wrote: »

It was about whether an area and its economic transactions could be isolated for study.


Each country prints slightly different euronotes IIRC. I'm not suggesting the money wouold have to be physically different in a controlled economic trial but having a way to track its moveement may be advantageous.

I don't really understand either what it means to be 'isolated', why it's relevant to a basic income and certainly can't see it could conceiveably be achievable

but I guess it depends what the purpose of the experiment is.

mwpt

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/new-zealand-plan-to-give-everyone-a-citizens-wage-and-scrap-benefits-a6932136.html

More momentum for this idea. I actually smiled a bit about this, more progression as we civilise. The world is changing.

In advanced economies we've been going the "wrong" way in terms of equality for a while now. That's fine, I don't particularly care if productive people are rewarded more for efforts, in fact that is good, but in a practical world we need to care for everyone. If the trend continues there will come a time where people need to work less and less and some form of citizens income will become almost mandatory.

I wish for the day where I don't have to hear another right wing talking about benefit scroungers and another left wing talking about vile bedroom taxes.

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/new-zealand-plan-to-give-everyone-a-citizens-wage-and-scrap-benefits-a6932136.html

More momentum for this idea. I actually smiled a bit about this, more progression as we civilise. The world is changing.

In advanced economies we've been going the "wrong" way in terms of equality for a while now. That's fine, I don't particularly care if productive people are rewarded more for efforts, in fact that is good, but in a practical world we need to care for everyone. If the trend continues there will come a time where people need to work less and less and some form of citizens income will become almost mandatory.

I wish for the day where I don't have to hear another right wing talking about benefit scroungers and another left wing talking about vile bedroom taxes.

a very good idea
it would make migration pointless too

mwpt

CLAPTON wrote: »

a very good idea
it would make migration pointless too

Which would be a shame, we'd never have met!