CEL - Letter Before Action

Code_Chaser

Hi. I was doing some research having received a letter from Civil Enforcement Ltd and came across the advice on this forum. I have read through the Newbie thread, but I'm stuck now on how I should proceed, as having read through it all what I was originally going to do may not be the best way forward.

The letter we have received is a 'Letter Before Action' with a Draft Particulars of Claim. There is a PCN number, and a reference to parking in a particular hotel. However, no dates, no registration numbers given. I assumed this referred to a few months ago when we did make use of the car park, but with permission from the staff in the hotel and with a parking permit in the windscreen. But I spoke to the General Manager of the hotel today to query it, it turns out he'd been on the phone all day trying to explain to the many other people who also got a letter in the last couple of days. The hotel's contract with Civil Enforcement actually ended in February, which means that this letter must be referring to a parking incident either in 2013 or 2014, it was so long ago I don't remember! I vaguely remember receiving a parking notice for a few years ago, calling the General Manager at that point and being assured the charge would be voided. That first letter is long gone now as it had been sorted (I realise now that I should have kept it but I had no reason to at that time, I used to work for a different hotel in that time who had Parking Eye operate in their car park and whenever our guests got wrongly fined we used to be able to just get it cancelled, so I didn't think anything of it when it happened to me).

So that charge would have been cancelled, we didn't hear anything more from them until this letter a few days ago. They have also included a Summary of the Supreme Court Judgement between ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis, which they intend to rely upon to support their claim. They state they will accept a reduced amount of £85 plus additional fees of £40 as full and final settlement within 7 days, otherwise they will issue proceedings. They offer a website to pay online which asks for the PCN number and registration number (which I haven't used yet as I don't know which car it refers to anyway). When I spoke to the GM about this letter he said there was absolutely nothing they could do as Civil Enforcement Ltd will not speak to them about these letters. I honestly think they are just trying their luck for a few extra bucks before Christmas, as the GM said that some people have been scared into paying the fine (which doesn't surprise me given the tone of the letter).

Does anyone have any advice? Before I started researching I was thinking of either calling them up and asking for the date and registration number, or writing to them asking for proof.

catfunt

For heavens sake don't phone them!

Not an expert, but wait for those who are more knowledgeable - while you wait, have a look at the section of the Newbies thread that looks at Letter Before Action, or LBCCC.

CEL have plenty of form for submitting court claims and then not turning up for hearings - take a look on the Parking Prankster website, some examples on there.

The_Deep

Just turn up in court, (they probably will not), although they may try to trick you into believing they have cancelled it, and you will win, Alternatively, you can ask for the date, full details, copy of NTK they allegedly sent, etc., and appeal it,

They are quoting Beavis which is ludricrous?. Beavis was a time limited free car park with no facility to purchase extra time, your event is none of those things. PE paid £52,000 to farm the car park. BB ignored the PPC's entreaties, you did not receive them. PE had a contract with the landowner, your PPC did not.

If they are relying on Beavis then their claim is doomed to failure. . C0mplain strongly to the BPA, your local Trading Standards Department, (but only in writing) and the DVLA

Prepare your schedule of costs when you have a couple of hours to spare.

Code_Chaser

Thank you both for the replies!

I will do a bit more reading/research to get my head around the best way forward - I definitely won't be phoning them now!

Code_Chaser

So I just thought I would post an update in case people in a similar situation are searching for solutions as I had been...

We eventually ignored the "Letter Before Action" - it was more of a case of we received court papers whilst we were trying to decide on our best course of action!

I managed to locate my original the email to the landowner, it was exactly 3 years ago!! I had used my work email and luckily the person who took over from me still had it in the sent folder! We also found the reply from the Manager saying that he would get it cancelled if I drop the fine letter in to him, which reminded me why I no longer had the original letter. So armed with our emails and the advice we read from this forum about CEL never turning up to court, we decided to submit a counter claim for costs incurred and costs we will incur for going to court.

Funnily enough, a few days ago (so a couple of days after we (and CEL) received the response pack from the court informing them we were defending ourselves), I receive a call from the Manager at the hotel to say that CEL has all of a sudden decided to play ball and has agreed to cancel 20 of the fines. Presumably we weren't the only ones who had decided to submit a defence - I'm guessing there were 19 others!! So the story continues for the time being, I will post another update when we have one.

Coupon-mad

Wow, good update!

Code_Chaser

Confirmation received - they have withdrawn the claim! :T

Greatful for that but it's now bugging me that we have had to pay out for a counter claim, but if we hadn't of done that they may not have withdrawn in the first place :mad:

hoohoo

Your counter claim is still active. They have only withdrawn their side. You can now carry on with your counter claim and that is the only matter to be disputed. There is no longer anything on 'their side'.

You might need to write to the court to clarify that you are still pursuing your side or the claim.

You could write to make them an offer

Dear Mr Schwartz,
WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE TO COSTS

I understand you have discontinued your claim. My counter claim is still active. However court is stressful and although I strongly believe the courts will fully support my claim, I would be willing to settle the matter for £x.

This offer is open for 14 days from the date of this letter. After that date I will ask the court to award the full amount.

Code_Chaser

Ah good call, thanks for that. I'll give it a go, would be a lot easier, and still cheaper for them to accept.

Our counter claim was only to cover the cost of the fee we paid to make the claim (£60) and time and costs for attending court, so not sure that would be well received if we are now the ones requesting to take it to court. We had actually ticked the box that says we would be happy to go to mediation so I will contact them on Monday to see what will happen with that.

Quentin

Who advised you to counterclaim for your costs in attending a future possible hearing?

Normally when the Claimant "loses" at a hearing the Judge will order that the Defendant's reasonable expenses are to be paid by the Claimant, so there was no need to "risk" the £60 you paid in court fees.

Code_Chaser

I wasn't aware of that to be honest, we were just so fed up with the whole thing so decided to fight back with the same aggression they were.