Unpaid wages

Morrishughes

I'm hoping someone can help me, because ACAS confused me.
My partner (and 8 others) have worked for a new timber frame company since May and was supposed to be paid 25.11.15 but was told a few days before that there was no money to pay them. So,
- someone from the insolvency service visited them 25.11.2015 and told them they had to keep coming into work, they couldn't go AWOL and couldn't claim Job Seekers.
- the insolvency service came back on 02.12.2015 and told them if a buyer didn't come in by the following day they would be wound up and given a case number so they could claim their wages from the National Insurance fund.
- the directors wanted to make them all redundant, but the insolvency service told them they couldn't and the insolvency service would be making all the decisions.
- Friday, they had a phone call to say they were being wound up and the case number will be with them later in the day.
- by lunchtime, they were told that there infact was only a petition lodged so they have to keep working without pay and no case number will be assigned.
- the directors have now made them all redundant without their monies owed.

My question is, is an Employment Tribunal the only option to claim their 6 weeks unpaid wages? If the become insolvent, can they still claim their wages through the National Insurance fund, even though they weren't employed on the date they become insolvent?

I'm so confused, but really blinking angry.thank you

Mersey_2

Has your partner received any calls or letters since?


It sounds as if the Ds tried to make employers redundant; but, it may only purported ie invalid if the company had ceased to be solvent.


An E Tribunal wouldn't be relevant as only started in May.


If employees needed to they could recover the unpaid wages - together with PILON etc - in the County Court; but, the Gov't fund will cover them if the Insolvency Service 'got in first.'


When you say the Ds made team redundant, was this just an informal word of mouth thing or have they all received notice in writing?

sangie595

For unpaid wages, and employment tribunal does have jurisdiction (but is costly) - you only need two years service for unfair dismissal. And unless the company has substantial assets, then a County Court cannot magic up wages - insolvent is a bit of a hint that they wouldn't be able to pay.

In the first instance the insolvency service office or the insolvency administrator are the people to speak to - if the company is being wound up owing wages and redundancy monies, then in most cases the insolvency service would pay, but it does take time. The fact that the petition was submitted later doesn't change the fact that they are owed money by an insolvent company.

Morrishughes

Thank you.
He was told by phone.
It's a shambles. He was out of work for 6 weeks when this job came up.
In the 7 months he's been there they haven't had a single pay slip, seen a contract and don't even know when their holiday year is.
They've been asking for all these things, when in September one of the directors told them if they asked again he would sack them all.
They've all been looking for work since August/September but there's nothing around here.

sangie595

In the absence of a statement to the contrary, the holiday year is started from the first day of employment - so everyone has a different holiday year, which might not be good news for some people. The insolvency service is used to all these sorts of things - unfortunately this circumstance isn't that unusual.

Mersey_2

Morrishughes wrote: »

Thank you.
He was told by phone.
It's a shambles. He was out of work for 6 weeks when this job came up.
In the 7 months he's been there they haven't had a single pay slip, seen a contract and don't even know when their holiday year is.
They've been asking for all these things, when in September one of the directors told them if they asked again he would sack them all.
They've all been looking for work since August/September but there's nothing around here.

That Director sounds delightful(!)


Yes, the redundancy isn't effective without formal notice.


Incidentally, any dismissal will be 'automatically unfair' if you raise concerns as a whistleblower and so he is afforded that protection.


E Tribunal isn't relevant as would cost c£400 to recover perhaps only double that, whereas you can issue in the County Court for £35-80 for most who are owed their PILON etc.


[In most unpaid wages/debt recovery matters, obtaining the Judgment is relatively straightforward. Rogue employers often don't even reply to the proceedings. Enforcing the Judgment is often the problem as Employers don't like to pay up. I have issued around 80 Warrants of Execution and Writs of Fi Fa. You'll be amazed how many firms - including large PLCs - pay up on sight of boltcutters and the threat of the removal of their assets from HQ!]

sangie595

Mersey wrote: »

That Director sounds delightful(!)


Yes, the redundancy isn't effective without formal notice. Notice does not have to be in writing - verbal notice is acceptable. And he doesn't want to go down the route of denying he has been terminated, otherwise his benefit claims will be based on him still being employed - no JSA.


Incidentally, any dismissal will be 'automatically unfair' if you raise concerns as a whistleblower and so he is afforded that protection. He hasn't made a protected disclosure though, so that might make it difficult to make a claim of whistleblowing.


E Tribunal isn't relevant as would cost c£400 to recover perhaps only double that, whereas you can issue in the County Court for £35-80 for most who are owed their PILON etc. Against who - the company is insolvent


[In most unpaid wages/debt recovery matters, obtaining the Judgment is relatively straightforward. Rogue employers often don't even reply to the proceedings. Enforcing the Judgment is often the problem as Employers don't like to pay up. I have issued around 80 Warrants of Execution and Writs of Fi Fa. You'll be amazed how many firms - including large PLCs - pay up on sight of boltcutters and the threat of the removal of their assets from HQ! What are they going to pay up with? They are insolvent.

OP, as I said previously, the people you need to be talking to are the Insolvency Service. They will be able to inform you what claims you can make.