Lycra nits:defend this...

sun-n-moon

Yes and what a lovely place Denmark is. Copenhagen is a nice place to cycle or drive. This totally irrational cycle hatred is a UK thing. I think it is the perogative of the uneducated and ignorant. Do they not realise that every bike on the road is potentially one vehicle less? One vehicle that they do not have to sit behind or try to overtake. Also footballers and runners wear a lot of Lycra. Are they also Lycra louts?
Vehicles kill approximately 2.000 people in the UK alone every year. Cyclists maybe one on a bad year. Who do you want to share the road with?

BeenThroughItAll

sun-n-moon wrote: »

Yes and what a lovely place Denmark is. Copenhagen is a nice place to cycle or drive. This totally irrational cycle hatred is a UK thing. I think it is the perogative of the uneducated and ignorant. Do they not realise that every bike on the road is potentially one vehicle less? One vehicle that they do not have to sit behind or try to overtake. Also footballers and runners wear a lot of Lycra. Are they also Lycra louts?
Vehicles kill approximately 2.000 people in the UK alone every year. Cyclists maybe one on a bad year. Who do you want to share the road with?

No; generally, they're just louts.

Richard53

MacMickster wrote: »

Get yourself off to bed now. It's a school day tomorrow. Talk to your teacher about sentences and full stops.

MacMickster wrote: »

The advantage of cycle lanes is that they contain rather less cars.

Since you are being picky about people's grammar, it's 'fewer'.

surreysaver

londonTiger wrote: »

it really !!!!es me off when they dont use the cycle lines. TFL are crippling London by narrowing down the already insufficent lanes to make way for cycle lanes and cyclist still refuse to use them

Trouble is, cycle lanes are no good if you are turning right. And a lot of the time, cars are parked in it anyway. Then sometimes it is a good idea to avoid cycle lanes in order to avoid motorised traffic turning left, or pulling out of side roads. Or pedestrians stepping into the road without looking. Or slow-moving cyclists that are barely cycling at walking pace.

Johno100

surreysaver wrote: »

Trouble is, cycle lanes are no good if you are turning right. And a lot of the time, cars are parked in it anyway. Then sometimes it is a good idea to avoid cycle lanes in order to avoid motorised traffic turning left, or pulling out of side roads. Or pedestrians stepping into the road without looking. Or slow-moving cyclists that are barely cycling at walking pace.

So why are we bothering to build them then, perhaps the 100's of millions being spent in London alone would be better used to repair and maintain the roads for use by all road users?

JP08

Johno100 wrote: »

So why are we bothering to build them then, perhaps the 100's of millions being spent in London alone would be better used to repair and maintain the roads for use by all road users?

The cycle Superhighways being built in London are a little different to the run of the mill cycle lanes in most of the country. They are actually being purpose built to a sensible width (ie allow one bike to pass another) and with junctions, including right turns, in mind. The segregating curbs should mean they are not used as a carpark / delivery space. Cycling groups have been consulted. They might actually be useful.

The rest of the country slaps paint around on existing assets. If you are lucky a minimum standard might be referenced. Rarely is anybody consulted. They are in general a waste of money and in all too many cases a hazard greater than that they are supposed to avoid.

[Deleted User]

MacMickster wrote: »

For the sake of educating us all, why don't you just state the empirical evidence on this forum, referenced back to the source quoted in that publication.

There's more empirical evidence than you can poke a stick at:

Characteristics of the Regular Adult Bicycle User
Kaplan. Federal Highway Administration, US, 1975.

Cycle paths 292 accidents per million cycle miles, against 104 for minor roads and 111 for major roads.


Typical Patterns of Accidents Involving Bicycles and Recommendations for the Safe Design of Bicycle Traffic Facilities
Alrutz, HUK-Verband, Köln, Germany, 1980.

A study of 4,000 accidents in Köln 1976 - 1978. Cycle paths as traditionally built do not guarantee a reduction in casualties. The risk cyclists face depends on how often their unimpeded ride is interrupted.


Signalised Intersections Function and Accident Risk for Unprotected Road Users
Linderholm. University of Lund, Sweden, 1984

Cycle tracks are 3.4 times more dangerous than using the road at junctions, rising to 11.9 times when riding against the traffic flow.

Traffic Accidents Involving Cyclists
Berlin Police, Germany, 1987.

Cyclists 4 times more likely to have accident on roads with cycle paths. Likelihood of serious or fatal injury similarly increased.


Bicycle Paths in Cities - The Safety Effect
Bach, Rosbach, Joergensen. Danish Road Directorate, Denmark, 1988

Cyclist casualties increased 48% following introduction of paths. Bicycle traffic volume did not increase during the study period.


Safety of Cycling Children – Effect of the Street Environment
Leden. Technical Research Centre of Finland 1989.

Overall risk of collision is 0.5 crashes/100,000km on the carriageway but 1.3 crashes/100,000km on a cycle track


Safety Effects of Bicycle Facilities
Wegman, Dijkstra. SWOV Institute for Road Safety Research, Netherlands, 1992.

In built-up areas cycle tracks 25% safer than unsegregated road between junctions, but 32% more dangerous at junctions. Cycle lanes 36% more dangerous between junctions, 19% safer at junctions. Seriousness of accidents greater if tracks or lanes present compared with no facilities.


Cycle Routes
Harland, Gercans. Transport Research Laboratory, UK, 1993.

No evidence that cycle routes lead to more cycling or improved safety.


Safety for Cyclists at Urban Road Junctions
Schnull, Alrutz et al. German Federal Highways Institute Report 262, 1993.

Proportion of junction accidents significantly higher with cycle tracks. HGV conflicts more common with segregation. Without signals, cyclists nearly 5 times more at risk on a cycle track; contrasting surfaces only reduces this to 1.5. With signals cyclists 1.7 to 2.7 times more at risk on cycle track, 1.3 times on a cycle lane. At roundabouts cycle tracks increase risk by 30%, cycle lanes by 25%.


Risk Factors for Bicycle-Motor Vehicle Collisions at Intersections
Wachtel, Lewiston. Institute of Transportation Engineers Journal, USA. September 1994

“Sidewalks or paths adjacent to a roadway are usually not, as non-cyclists expect, safer than the road but much less safe. This conclusion is already well estab¬lished in existing standards for bikeway design, although in our experience it is not widely known or observed.” Risk on average 1.8 times as great.


How to Decrease the Number of Bicycle Accidents?
Räsänen, Traffic Safety Committee of Insurance Companies, Finland, 1995.

Study of 234 bicycle crashes in four Finnish cities. 63% of collisions between a cyclist and a motor vehicle took place at cycle track crossings.


Junctions and Cyclists
Jensen, Andersen, Nielsen. Velo City, Barcelona, 1997.

Cycle lanes in Denmark realise accident savings between junctions, but this is more than outweighed by additional accidents at junctions. Cyclists particularly vulnerable at non-signalised junctions where study indicates a nearly fourfold increase in risk.


Measuring the Safety Effect of Raised Bicycle Crossings
Leden, Gårdner, Pulkkinen. Swedish Transportation Research Board, 1998.

Conventional cycle tracks increase cyclists' risk at junctions.


Toronto Bicycle Commuter Safety Rates
Aultman-Hall, Kaltenecker. Transportation Research Board, 1998.

Injuries 1.8 times more likely on cycle paths than roads and 6 times on footways.


Two Decades of the Redway Cycle Paths of Milton Keynes
Franklin. Traffic Engineering & Control, 1999.

UK's largest purpose-built cycle path network
Injury accidents per million km cycled: main roads 31, local roads 149, cycle paths 166. All crashes: main roads 47, local roads 149, cycle paths 319.


The Risks of Cycling
Pasenen, Helsinki City Planning Department 2001

In Helsinki, using a road-side cycle path is nearly 2.5 times likely to result in injury than cycling on the carriageway with traffic.

*****


So cycle paths are for the benefit of motorists, not cyclists.

DKLS

arcon5 wrote: »

I didn't think the cyclist was polite in that he swore.... be I certainly wouldn't class him as 'abusive' despite being a misguided idiot

I would class him as abusive, charging up and making threats of going to the police, I would have ripped him a new one (verbally) if he did that to me.

Another plum with a camera looking for trouble one day he may find some real trouble.

esuhl

JP08 wrote: »

And no, you can't get effective wing-mirrors for push bikes (and boy have I tried). Those that are available come in two types. One is a mirror on a metal stick, which on most bikes, which have minimal suspension, will mean the image is just a blur. The other mounts directly on handlebar ends and generally means you can get a good reflection of your own leg or genitalia but not of what is behind you.

I found the Cateye BM-500G mirror (for flat handlebars) to be pretty good. My arm does obscure 1/3rd of the mirror when gripping the bars, but it's still useful. It's a surprisingly clear image, and vibrations don't turn the image into a meaningless blur.

https://www.cateye.com/intl/products/detail/BM-500G/

It won't stop the dunces in driving gloves from using their vehicle as a weapon, but it's good to be able to see all the drunk drivers approaching.

(Well, if cyclists are going to be labelled as "lycra louts", why not depict drivers as begloved drunkards? Only seems fair.)

force_ten

I do understand the wicking effect of technical clothing but when wearing skin hugging lycra shorts i have to shove two pairs of socks down the front to maintain any credibility, and the fact that the socks normally retain water it totally cancels out the wicking properties of the second skin lycra

i tend to dress more like my hero the Oxford street traffic droid