Theft of BMWs by key cloning?

C_Mababejive

What can anyone tell me about BMW key cloning? Articles i read say that you have to get access to the OBD port to clone a blank key.

Is there a way of intercepting a key signal if in close proximity to the owner when he /she operates the key fob?

Is there a danger that if you take your car somewhere to have work done, someone could access the OBD port,clone a key then later on sell on your details to an accomplice/thief?

forgotmyname

Unless you get within a few mm of the key then no you wont be able to clone it from a distance.

Its old news, have you not heard it before now?

You dont clone the original key you add a new one into the system. They can gain access without setting the alarm off and make themself a new key.
The same way BMW create a new one if you lose one.

If you give someone a key then yes they can clone it if they have the equipment, same as the locksmiths and it will appear to be the same key
that you have to the immobiliser.

Johno100

C_Mababejive wrote: »

What can anyone tell me about BMW key cloning? Articles i read say that you have to get access to the OBD port to clone a blank key.

Smash the appropriate window close to where the OBD is located and reach in, with some vehicles there's a blind spot meaning the alarm won't be activated. SOLUTION: Have your OBD port relocated within the vehicle, disconnected, buy a cover for it or fit a disk lock to your steering wheel. Still might end up with a broken window though.

C_Mababejive wrote: »

Is there a way of intercepting a key signal if in close proximity to the owner when he /she operates the key fob?

Used to be possible with some vehicles, but I don't think it was ever a very common or reliable method and I understand technology has now moved on.

C_Mababejive wrote: »

Is there a danger that if you take your car somewhere to have work done, someone could access the OBD port,clone a key then later on sell on your details to an accomplice/thief?

Yes of course, but the same thing has always been possible with the old fashioned mechanical key.

The bigger danger is the 2 in 1 burglery, where your house is broken into and your keys and the car are stolen. Or having your keys stolen while you are in a public place is another issue.

Nilrem

Johno100 wrote: »

Used to be possible with some vehicles, but I don't think it was ever a very common or reliable method and I understand technology has now moved on.

From memory it was only ever really possible with Infrared fobs as they used the same IR range as most remote controls, and you could get a "learning" All4one type remote which would do it.

However that only worked on fobs where the same code was always used, not even with IR fobs that used a rolling code, and you had to be in the right place at the right time to pick up the code with your remote (so it was very situational as IR fobs were quite directional unlike RF ones).

All RF fobs from memory use a rolling code, and I think many are also "frequency hopping" meaning they may not use the exact same frequency every time.

Of course that doesn't help when a manufacturer does something utterly !!!!!! such as placing the port that lets you program the ECU to accept new codes where there is a blind spot in the alarm systems coverage of the windows, and doesn't require any authentication to programme it.
I still can't believe that any car company, let alone a "premium" brand was that stupid, it would have cost close to nothing (probably pennies per car) to have included a security layer between the OBD interface and the car security systems.

Johno100

Nilrem wrote: »

Of course that doesn't help when a manufacturer does something utterly !!!!!! such as placing the port that lets you program the ECU to accept new codes where there is a blind spot in the alarm systems coverage of the windows, and doesn't require any authentication to programme it.

I still can't believe that any car company, let alone a "premium" brand was that stupid, it would have cost close to nothing (probably pennies per car) to have included a security layer between the OBD interface and the car security systems.

Agreed, but if I recall correctly all cars sold in Europe must permit open and unsecured access to OBD codes, so non-franchised mechanics and garages can read error codes etc, thus that prevents pin/password protection of the OBD port by the manufacturer.

C_Mababejive

So is this a possible scenario?

Public car park. Crook sees you arrive. Activates some kind of RF jammer.You flick the fob to lock the car but it hasnt locked as its blocked. You go shopping. They open car,read OBD port follow you home,clone key,come back another day?

BillyFord

C_Mababejive wrote: »

So is this a possible scenario?

Public car park. Crook sees you arrive. Activates some kind of RF jammer.You flick the fob to lock the car but it hasnt locked as its blocked. You go shopping. They open car,read OBD port follow you home,clone key,come back another day?

It's possible but more likely you'd be a victim of burglary.

patman99

C_M you are bang on the button. This is exactley what the theives do.
EXCEPT that they wait until you have gone, open the door, plug a reprogrammer into the ODB port, then program a new keyfob to the system before driving off in your car.

class2ldn

I had my bmw window smashed last month. Luckily it had the security update which stops them starting the car.
They can still gain access though but not drive off.
Had to have all the locks changed.
Can confirm the alarm didn't activate.

Marktheshark

Its know as "blue boxing" up here.
A radio transmitter combined obdII locksmiths device runs a dealer emergency entry code on the frequency the fob works on, a hidden code so auto locksmiths can open the car and clone a new key.
Then they run bluetooth obd via the radio or obd port on older cars and start the car in diagnostic mode.

A software update from the dealer puts the ECU in lockdown every ten incorrect codes in 30 seconds, the device they use runs all 256 dealer access codes in a few seconds, so the update detects multiple access attempts and locks the ecu for 30 seconds and only allows one attempt after that.

gzoom

class2ldn wrote: »

I had my bmw window smashed last month. Luckily it had the security update which stops them starting the car.
They can still gain access though but not drive off.
Had to have all the locks changed.
Can confirm the alarm didn't activate.

The security 'update' simply disable comfort access, where if you put a key into the key barrel you can drop the window without the alarm going off.

BMW owners on BMW forums have reported cars with the 'security' update also been stolen via OBD key cloaning.