Student in Assured Shorthold Tenancy

sarahg1969

I've been asked to advise my daughter's friend, and I'm stuck on this one, because she's entered into a different type of agreement from my daughter. I'd be grateful for some advice, please, please.

The gist of the issue is below.

Girl (a student)enters into 12-month AST agreement from July this year with two friends. All are jointly and severally liable (whereas my daughter rented just one room in a house).

One of friends has mental health issues, and has unfortunately started to have issues with the girl - issuing threats and becoming obsessive about her. I won't go into it, but the problem is huge. Girl became very scared, very quickly, and is suffering from huge stress and has been told by uni that she has to take a year out, as she's in no fit state to go on her placement as she is. They simply will not let her complete her year.

So, she's had to leave uni, but she's tied into this tenancy. She's unable to find the rent and her parents have helped her out with one term's rent, but as this was late, the landlord has added lots of charges. The tenancy agreement states they will charge £50 per reminder email and they charge £25 per text message, too.

She was only in the house for a very short period, and she is now also being charged for damages to the property that she thinks are being caused by this other tenant when she is having episodes.

The landlord has apparently now issued court proceedings for over £300 of charges, and the next lot of rent is due just after Christmas, which they simply don't have.
The landlord is also threatening the parents with court, although they never signed the guarantor docs.

Unfortunately, because they are so upset by this whole affair (and it is causing an awful lots of arguments, and has made the girl very ill), things are getting a bit muddled, but basically, they need to know what they can do. The landlord is expecting further large payments in January and April, which they simply don't have. The landlord continues to email and text, adding charges for each time she does so. They're understandably aggrieved that their daughter would like to live in the house, but simply can't because of the threats she was living under.

I do think that they should probably get a free half-hour interview with a local solicitor, but does anyone have any advice, please? They are absolutely desperate.

Many thanks.

G_M

Are all 3 girls still living there? If not, which has moved out?

I'm a bit confused but get the impression that your daughter's friend has left (?) and the friend with MH issues is .. still tere? still attending uni?

To be honest, best solution, if possible (needs landlord consent), would be for all 3 to surrender the tenancy and walk away....

sarahg1969 wrote: »

Girl (a student)enters into 12-month AST agreement from July this year with two friends. All are jointly and severally liable (whereas my daughter rented just one room in a house).

One of friends has mental health issues, and has unfortunately started to have issues with the girl -.....Girl became very scared, very quickly, and is suffering from huge stress and has been told by uni that she has to take a year out, as she's in no fit state to go on her placement as she is. They simply will not let her complete her year.

So, she's had to leave uni, but she's tied into this tenancy. She's unable to find the rent and her parents have helped her out with one term's rent, but as this was late, the landlord has added lots of charges. The tenancy agreement states they will charge £50 per reminder email and they charge £25 per text message, too.
I would advise her to dispute this as an 'unfair contractual term'. The LL can charge a fair amount to reflect his costs, but this is clearly exhorbitant. WRITE and say so.

She was only in the house for a very short period, and she is now also being charged for damages to the property that she thinks are being caused by this other tenant when she is having episodes.
Unfortunately all 3 are equally liable for the cost of the damage. They have to agree/dispute between themselves which one actually did the damage and should pay.

The landlord has apparently now issued court proceedings for over £300 of charges, and the next lot of rent is due just after Christmas, which they simply don't have.
The landlord is also threatening the parents with court, although they never signed the guarantor docs.
That's easy. If no Deed of Guarantee was Executed, with a witness, then the parents have no liability

......they need to know what they can do. The landlord is expecting further large payments in January and April, which they simply don't have. The landlord continues to email and text, adding charges for each time she does so.
WRITE
They're understandably aggrieved that their daughter would like to live in the house, but simply can't because of the threats she was living under.

I do think that they should probably get a free half-hour interview with a local solicitor, but does anyone have any advice, please? They are absolutely desperate.

Many thanks.

Does she want to continue to live there, or leave?
What do the other 2 want?

On reflection, if a 'surrender' of the tenancy is wanted so they can all 3 walk away, then disputing the charges is not going to make the LL sympathetic towards agreeing an Early Surrender.

but if they want/plan to continue the tenancy, then those fees need to be refuted.

If just one of them wants to leave (eg daughter's friend) then there are 2 ways:

* flit away during the night, disappear, and leave the remaining 2 to deal with the charges and ongoing full rent.

* get the other two to agree to cover the full rent going forward, then get a Deed of Assignment executed, removing her name from the tenancy (needs agreement of all 3 tenants and landlord

* find a replacement 3rd tenant, then get a Deed of Assignment executed, substituting new name for hers on the tenancy (needs agreement of all 3 tenants and landlord

sarahg1969

My daughter's friend left the house after just a couple of weeks. She could no longer live there because she was in genuine fear got her safety. She has no contact with the other tenants now because she has had to change her phone number etc due to the threats she was receiving.

The LL has been on to her tonight saying she has to pay the outstanding charges (rent is up to date) of around £300 or she will issue court proceedings on Monday.

I've advised her to tell the LL the charges are unreasonable and she's seeking legal advice.

She didn't leave the property out of choice but because she was in danger. It's a horrible situation for her.

G_M

1) if the landlord issues court proceedings without first sending a 'Letter Before Action' the court will take a dim view

Do you know if the LL is planningt to sue just the girl who's left? Or all 3 of them jointly?

2) If the LL is only taking court action on the charges (not rent), I would let him. Enter a defence and see whether the court believes they are fair/justified. I suspect the LL will lose.

3) However, if the LL wins, then suck it up and pay the £300 (plus court fees I'm afraid). There is NO adverse record (CCJ etc) so long as you pay what the court decides.

So there are no rent arrears at present? That is a bigger problem. It might be worth offering to pay the LL the £300 as a 'sweetner', on condition he releases her from the tenancy.

the difficulty is that as it's a joint tenancy, the other tenants must also agree.

Guest101

Great advice from G_M.

I will just add that if the contract does not state the procedure for issuing reminders then it's more likely to fail.

Charges cannot be a green light for spamming the tenants.

So would issuing one reminder to the tenants @£50 be unreasonable? - maybe not.

Would issuing one to each at £50 each? Definitely - as they are on one tenancy.

If the contract says there will be 1 text reminder and 1 email before formal recovery proceedings- that might be reasonable.

£300 in charges sounds like the LL is writing individually which would be totally unenforceable.

Can you confirm?

agrinnall

I'm not really sure why this is your concern at all. It seems that your daughter has a different type of tenancy agreement and is only liable for her own costs. I think you should stay out of this and let the people who are involved sort it out.

skintandfat

One thing that pops into my mind-
The LL has a duty of care to ensure the safety of all the tenants, this they have failed to do (assuming the LL knew about the other tenants issues)


I would inform the landlord that you wish them to cease communication with your daughter and any further communications will be reported to the police as harassment.
You need to inform the landlord that you will dispute the charges and you see them as unfair- this situation would not have arose if the LL had ensured the safety of the tenants therefore your daughter should not be held liable for his inaction.

agrinnall

skintandfat wrote: »

One thing that pops into my mind-
The LL has a duty of care to ensure the safety of all the tenants, this they have failed to do (assuming the LL knew about the other tenants issues)


I would inform the landlord that you wish them to cease communication with your daughter and any further communications will be reported to the police as harassment.
You need to inform the landlord that you will dispute the charges and you see them as unfair- this situation would not have arose if the LL had ensured the safety of the tenants therefore your daughter should not be held liable for his inaction.

Re-read the OP, this is somebody else's daughter, not the OP's. It's nothing to do with the OP.

dimbo61

So the LL rented out a property to 3 tenants (students) and should have known that one of the tenants had a Mental Health issues ?
The tenant has Informed the LL why she has moved out?
The Tenant has also Informed the University and the Police of the problems she was/is having with the other tenant in the property ?
What is the tenant doing now she is back home ? WORKING ?
Perhaps she could get a job and pay the rent she still owes !

The charges are WAY over the top
£50 for an email and £25 for a text

" The LL has a duty of care to ensure the safety of all the tenants, this they have failed to do (assuming the LL knew about the other tenants issues) "
The LL has a responsibility to provide a safe home for the tenants to live ( Gas Safe certificate, ETC )
Not sure how He/She can look after the Mental Health problems of the tenants

G_M

skintandfat wrote: »

One thing that pops into my mind-
The LL has a duty of care to ensure the safety of all the tenants, this they have failed to do (assuming the LL knew about the other tenants issues)

Over the last few years I've read some very outlandish bits of advice, and seen some really dodgy legal statements (even made a few myself).

but this? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

A landlord is responsible for dangers arising from a joint tenant with mental health issues?

You'll be reminding us next that under the Landlord and Tenant Act 1642 (section 43 if I recall aright), landlords must complete a degree in Clinical Psychology before signing any tenancy agreement or be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.

skintandfat

G_M wrote: »

Over the last few years I've read some very outlandish bits of advice, and seen some really dodgy legal statements (even made a few myself).

but this? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

A landlord is responsible for dangers arising from a joint tenant with mental health issues?

You'll be reminding us next that under the Landlord and Tenant Act 1642 (section 43 if I recall aright), landlords must complete a degree in Clinical Psychology before signing any tenancy agreement or be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.

Here's me thinking the landlord had a duty of care see;
https://rentingscotland.org/landlords-guide/dealing-antisocial-behaviour-landlord


Private landlords have responsibility for antisocial behaviour that happens in and around the properties they rent out. This means that if your tenants or their visitors are causing trouble, you have to try to put a stop to it. This guide is for you if you’re concerned your tenants or their visitors are behaving antisocially or you want to avoid this by best practice.


Although this law applies to Scotland (link above) I assume that there is a duty of care for a LL to act when things are brought to their attention (it may be that tenants outside Scotland have less rights - that's a drawback of having Westminster rule landlord things).