Should they really be making us redundant

lincroft1710

p00hsticks wrote: »

It's the role that becomes redundant, not individual employees.
The fuzziness comes in defining exactly what the role consists of, and the employment contract will inform that.

In the OP's case, the question is, are X people doing a specific job based together in the office fulfilling the same role as X people working from home, or are they two different roles .....

I am aware that the role becomes redundant, but the OP's role does not appear to be redundant, hence the offer of continued employment.

jwhxch

team in x wrote original application,
Team in town last engineers with client knowledge, but not much more than team in x, team in town doing daily support as well as development. Team leader left, so now have leader in x doing similar role, we did not want to be in charge.
Group in eu learning systems, but US stopped them having access to do support . Management want team in eu to do simple roles and move town role on to other clients. We are happy doing our mixed role. everything seems to be reactionary, with no up front goal. Suspect will carry on collecting the pay cheque until something better comes a long.. but working on kitchen table does not seem to meet health and safety in my mind....office please, if you need me then should have good enviroment to work in....or is this just the stop gap to the next turning of the thumb screws. already stated that can't work away from home, so they know moving me on not option. Lol.... thanks all not really getting answer to is it legal to make me us my house as place to work and make it all safe to do so...if it was not my property would it be allowed.

lincroft1710

Plenty of people work from home. H&S doesn't really apply, just use common sense in your environment. Many offices have very cramped working conditions. I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

DKLS

lincroft1710 wrote: »

Plenty of people work from home. H&S doesn't really apply, just use common sense in your environment. Many offices have very cramped working conditions. I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

This I don't see much of an issue here, I have worked on and off at home for years and I love it, no office politics and no H&S required. A couple of companies where I started the jobs from an office asked me to work from home and I managed to get new desk, chair and my internet line paid for me.

p00hsticks

jwhxch wrote: »

thanks all not really getting answer to is it legal to make me us my house as place to work and make it all safe to do so...if it was not my property would it be allowed.

As with any change in contract conditions- your employer can propose a change to its employees and its employees can then choose whether to accept or reject them. That includes where they carry out their work.

The next question (which I'm unsure of the answer to) is - if an employee chooses to reject them, are they taken to have resigned or are they redundant ?

jwhxch

Lol, Asked to complete health and safety document at the top ...it stated "are expected to provide an appropriate working environment at home at their own cost". Goes on to ask me questions about setup and signing away rights as if it was me requesting to work at home. Worked from home today, very isolated, no interaction, open discussion, all the extras of going into an office. feels very lonely existence. The next move will be my original employer has no work, but we have this customer that does, but they need you to be in XYZ... your homebased role allows for this... if I wanted to be out of office and on the road then I would been a contractor.

elsien

If you're a homeworker and you have to visit somewhere then your travel time is included in your working hours and you should get mileage/travel expenses paid.

p00hsticks

jwhxch wrote: »

Lol, Asked to complete health and safety document at the top ...it stated "are expected to provide an appropriate working environment at home at their own cost". Goes on to ask me questions about setup and signing away rights as if it was me requesting to work at home. Worked from home today, very isolated, no interaction, open discussion, all the extras of going into an office. feels very lonely existence. The next move will be my original employer has no work, but we have this customer that does, but they need you to be in XYZ... your homebased role allows for this... if I wanted to be out of office and on the road then I would been a contractor.

What I'm going to say now may not be correct legally, but having been in a similar position to you here's my twopennyworth from experience ...

Given that there are only a few employees and you haven't mentioned a union, in practice your view on how things are going is probably correct. Your employee can turn round to you and say they have a valid reason for changing your terms and conditions and proposing a change to your contract. You don't have to accept it but unless your employer is upfront in offerreing redundancy as an alternative option you will probably struggle to get it - rather your employer will consider you as having resigned rather than accept the new contract.

Individually, you are not going to win this battle. If all the employees are of the same opinion (what do your colleagues think about working from home ?) , you are not easily replaceable and you are all prepared to put your jobs on the line, then you could get your employer to reconsider, but in reality I think you need to try to make the best out of a bad situation.

So realistically you need to decide whethe to start looking for a new job - which as you say may pay £10k less - or work out how to get the best out of the position with your current employer.

You say you worked from home today, whcih has demonstrated to your employers that it is not completely impossible for you to do so. If you genuinely believe that the lack of interaction and open discussion will lead to you not being able to do your job effectively, then let your employer know, and consider ways around it between you. Obviously it depends on exactly what work you are doing, but in my experience, providing you are given a mobile phone with headset and make use of teleconferencing ,e-mailing and software such as MS Lync that allows instant messaging, group chat, online meetings and for you to share your desktop, then a 'virtual office' can work just as well as a real one.

Your employer should provide you with the proper equipment to meet health and safety standards to work from home - e.g. a docking station and fullsize adjustable monitor rather than just using a laptop screen permanently, and a fully adjustable office chair, but be realistic - in terms of health and safety a kitchen table and an office desk is pretty much interchangeable.

When negotiating, be 100% sure of what is actually in your contract and what is not - it's not likely that your contract actually states that you will work exclusively for a particular project, customer or account, or with the same group of people.
And knowing the IT industry, there'll probably be a reasonable amount of flexibility expected in your role (e.g between development and support)

And in my experience, redundancy terms above the statutory minimum weren't usually contractual, but written to be subject to the employers discretion. In general, I beleive there is a 'customs and practice' arguiment that if an emplyoer has consistently done something in the past then this effectively becomes contractual even if not written doen, but I think you'll find this difficult to challenge.

Sorry that this may not be what you want to hear, and it may not be strictly legally correct, but having been there and got three of the T-shirts it's my view from experience (for the record; I've been in IT for thirty odd years in development, support and analysis and have been TUPE'd three times now. The first time I stuck it for 12 months before quitting and going to work as a contractor, the second time , as with you, an office move ended up with me working from home, and the third move saw them demand that I worked from an office again).

Also I agree with sangie in post 8 - you've put more than enough detail in on your posts for your employer to easily identify both themselves and you if they came across this thread, which could cause problems for you (they may have something in their disciplinary code about discussing them on public forums ?) so I suggest a bit of juidicious editting might be in order (to remove placenames and precise numbers for example).

jwhxch

thanks all. Suspect if they can make me work as home they can then say your main office is 80 miles away and you need to go there and sell your skills as we don't need you on this product for my original employer or one of the product other users....at what point is requst unrealistic. Found small print for homebased on intranet after tuped...no access to this before. New employer has had over a year to prepare us..now doing it inshort time with xmas in the way.

Kit provided does not work well with client systems...ended up using own kit to work productively.

Thanks will try to see positive side