VCS Parking charge 'NOTICE'

Redx

"the deep" might say that, I wouldnt

to clarify my position, its what beamer said and bazster said

namely , I would wait for the NTK to arrive in the post, then appeal that NTK to VCS in the usual manner

if they turn down that appeal, I would not use the IAS even if they offered it (which they wont)

I would then follow procedures outlined in pranksters blog for ADR by some other recognised method (but not the IAS)

others will say appeal at day 20 , others will say appeal to the IAS if offered, there are several scenarios put forward as there is no 2one size fits all"

to recap , I would wait for the NTK to arrive between day 29 and day 56 , if it never arrives , or arrives late, appeal it on those grounds (or not at all if it never arrives)

assuming it does arrive, appeal to VCS, if they dont cancel, ignore anything except an official LBC or official court papers

I have never advocated using the IAS this year, not since CM and prankster said its a waste of space (ie:- not since their trial period was over)

hope that clarifies my position, but I know others will differ, as they have the right to do

bazster

I can smell a complaint to DVLA if/when a NtK arrives. They've issued a worthless NtD, so effectively there is no NtD. If a NtK now arrives that's out-of-time for a no-NtD situation (i.e. beyond 14 days) and it alleges keeper liability then it's definitely complaint time.

Redx

you wait for the NTK and then check the details on it, also checking if it meets POFA2012 and any other discrepancies

until it comes you wont necessarily know what you will be appealing on, although you will be using the graounds in the appeal template in BLUE from the NEWBIES sticky thread

so to recap, the RK will appeal any NTK depending on what it says, this NTD you have now should be kept for reference but the RK will be assumed to have never seen it

the "friend" with the correct NTD appeals it on day 20 as described in an earlier post (post #9) , also checking for discrepancies etc (or they wait for the NTK and appeal that instead) , the former seems a good idea if the NTD has correct details on it, but in the interests of fairness we have to give him the alternative too

Umkomaas

I'd be making a very strong complaint to the DVLA about the whole debacle of issuing a totally fictitious NtD to your son's car, then changing their minds and applying to DVLA for keeper details based on a ticket that was incorrectly issued. There is no 'reasonable cause' for them accessing your son's details.

Ask the DVLA to investigate this serious breach of the PPC's KADOE contract with them.

http://www.kadoe.co.uk

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/kadoe-keeper-of-a-vehicle-at-the-date-of-an-event-contract

PCHell147

Thank you..

I'll get my son to read that link and get in touch.

Does he reply to VCS as well using the email address on the rear of the NTK?

Thanks

hoohoo

If your son is not the keeper of the car, he can appeal as there is no keeper liability. Otherwise, his appeal point would be bad signage, and also therefore that PE v Beavis does not apply and the charge is a penalty.

However, VCS and the IAS do not accept these arguments. 2 schools of thought - appeal anyway to establish a paper trail in case they try court - or dont because the IAS are a jumped up kangaroo court run by shysters. My preference is appeal, but others disagree.

Coupon-mad

See post #3 for the options about IAS stage. My preference is to ignore and not hand the parking firm a win at IAS which is sometimes followed by court. I say stay under the radar but it's all explained in post #3 of the sticky thread.

Also beware, you keep saying 'do I do this' but it's not you, it's your son and if he does try IAS he needs to know he'll 99% likely lose and then he'll be on the back foot. Does he want to be in that position, is he the sort of person who would be better off not doing that, being less confrontational, hopefully less likely to get a small claim by just ignoring debt collector letters?

HC77

Hi All,

I'm back with an update. The driver emailed VCS outlining he didn't have a correct ticket.

Received a letter. Basically saying they can't be held responsible for third party involvement of removal of tickets (this wasn't the case as he was physically handed the wrong ticket)

Is this where the driver emails VCS again actually saying the driver was handed the wrong ticket? (removing the 3rd party line they've come back with as a defence)

They have also included photographs of the car. In none of these photos does it show anything that states where the car is parked. Just up close photos of the inside of the car, one of the VRN - but no road signage or anything indicating as to where the car is parked. All zoom photos. Does the driver email asking for ALL photos from the night be made available and see if they have one showing any signage???

They've also included a photocopy of what would have been the ticket issued with the correct car details.


Where does the driver proceed from here??

All advice greatly appreciated. Thanks In advance....

Coupon-mad

He emails back saying the driver (not 'he') was handed the wrong PCN by the VCS employee, therefore it is a fact that the actual PCN for that car WAS NEVER SERVED AT ALL. Point out the IPC Code of Practice which probably warbles on somewhere about a PCN either being served by post or put on the windscreen or handed to the person appearing to be in charge of the car.

None of the above occurred and so not only has the CoP been breached but there is even less prospect of success should VCS decide to try a small claim against the keeper. Keep these photos of signs as well in case they ever try a small claim:

The driver did then go for a wander round the car park and after sometime of hunting with the light on his phone found 3 signs that weren't 'clearly visible' - he took a photo of one of them.

Does he still have that 'wrong' PCN? keep it because it proves the wrong PCN was handed over so the right one could not have been.

They have also included photographs of (the) car. In none of these photos does it show anything that states where the driver parked. Just up close photos of the inside of the car, one of his VRN - but no road signage or anything indicating as to where the driver parked. All zoom photos. Does he email asking for ALL photos from the night be made available to him and see if they have one showing any signage?

Yes why not...he can add that the photos shown to him show no contravention evidence at all and again suggest another breach of the CoP because member operators are required to ensure evidence shows the contravention and the vehicle with a sign in sight.

No PCN served at all = any 'charge' is void and he can say that any further contact to pursue the 'charge' (from VCS or their agents) will be considered unwarranted harassment.

Play email tennis with them, never saying who was driving.

And go up to your earlier posts and NOW delete anything which might ID the driver and/or appellant. Too much information! You can get the idea from the way I edited your post above, when I quoted it. You can see from the bits in bold, I edited it when quoting from you, to remove words which suggest the driver.

HC77

Coupon-mad

Many thanks for your response. I shall advise to email VCS again stating the driver was handed the wrong ticket. Therefore no 3rd party intervention caused the wrong ticket.


I shall get the driver to ask for ALL the photos they hold of the correct car in question?? That way I'm thinking they can't just rock up in court with further photos they haven't disclosed to us.

I've not posted anything to ID the driver or stated where the ticket was received. I did think of that before I posted.

I'm presuming he emails VCS again and not any other appeals panel?