Parking Eye, Glasgow

System

I'd bet it is not on PE paper.

the letters received so far have all been from DRP (Debt Recovery Plus) on behalf of PE.

Its called a tort of deceit and features heavily in the ParkingEye v Somerfield case where they were examining the issue of fraud. Make a complaint to CAS. Tell them you believe DR+'s actions are gross misrepresentation and ask them to record it against the company. Suggest they pass it onto Trading Standards/Procurator Fiscal.

....that's the reason its not on PE paper as they like to have plausible deniability though after a decade its wearing thin

ManxRed

In Scotland, PPCs can get the owner details from the DVLA. That doesn't mean they are legally liable. Two completely different things.

Maybesaye

Firstly can I thank all the folks who have taken the trouble to help me here. I have also taken the advice to read the 'Newbie Section' which I clearly should have done to begin with.

To respond in turn to Fruitcake first, I found the quoted paragraph on Mainsite>Private Parking etc>and paged down.

To Iceweasel, I can follow the 'No Keeper Liability' part of the quoted paragraph but the next bit says the owner is responsible if the keeper is unable or refuses to say who the driver was. That person would likely be within the same household I think.

Lastly to IamEmanresu, I think I may follow your advice and contact CAS.

The newbie thread suggests complaining to the CEO of the retailer and I now have the contact details to do just that. I will ignore DRP from this point on and if all else fails perhaps the retailer will come to the rescue.

The_Slithy_Tove

Maybesaye wrote: »

To Iceweasel, I can follow the 'No Keeper Liability' part of the quoted paragraph but the next bit says the owner is responsible if the keeper is unable or refuses to say who the driver was. That person would likely be within the same household I think.

I don't know where that quote came from but it contains too many red herrings.

The "owner" of a vehicle is entirely irrelevant, just forget it. There are only two parties relevant here, the Driver and the Registered Keeper. In Scotland, only the Driver can be held liable for any alleged parking charge - end of. The only details a PPC can obtain are those of the Registerd Keeper, as that is what the DVLA holds. (In England & Wales, subject to certain criteria, the Keeper (who may or may not be the same as the Registered Keeper) can be made liable.)

A PPC does not know who the driver was, and cannot make any assumptions based on who the Registered Keeper is. That is why cases never (or very rarely) reach the Scottish courts, as they know they are on to a loser. (The tiny number of cases filed tend to be withdrawn pretty quickly.)

Therefore, stop fretting, get on with your life, ignore PE.

bod1467

ManxRed wrote: »

In Scotland, PPCs can get the owner details from the DVLA. That doesn't mean they are legally liable. Two completely different things.

Really? That's news to me. I thought DVLA only kept registered keeper details? (Whilst it is probable that the RK is also the owner, this is not guaranteed).

System

I thought DVLA only kept registered keeper details?

The DVLA specifically say that these are NOT the owner details. All they do is keep a big list of "registered" keepers - who may not even be the keeper on the day.

For example if you drive a hire car, you are the keeper but the DVLA record will show the HireCo as the "registered" keeper.

Never accept what a PPC says.

Also see my sig.

Coupon-mad

Maybesaye wrote: »

To Iceweasel, I can follow the 'No Keeper Liability' part of the quoted paragraph but the next bit says the owner is responsible if the keeper is unable or refuses to say who the driver was.

Where has anyone written that about Scotland?

PPC_hater

Maybesaye wrote: »

Have recently used the suggested template regards keeper not being obliged to name driver and received a letter from Parking Eye citing Elliott v Loake 1982. Having checked again on the MSE site this morning there seems to be suggestion that the tactic of refusing to name the driver now only works in Wales and that in Scotland the 'owner' can in fact be held liable and identified for Parking Eye by DVLA but would have to be pursued through a county court action. Is this a correct assessment and would an English county court pursue a driver located in Scotland?

what have the welsh ever done for us :j

Fruitcake

Maybesaye wrote: »

Firstly can I thank all the folks who have taken the trouble to help me here. I have also taken the advice to read the 'Newbie Section' which I clearly should have done to begin with.

To respond in turn to Fruitcake first, I found the quoted paragraph on Mainsite>Private Parking etc>and paged down.

To Iceweasel, I can follow the 'No Keeper Liability' part of the quoted paragraph but the next bit says the owner is responsible if the keeper is unable or refuses to say who the driver was. That person would likely be within the same household I think.

Lastly to IamEmanresu, I think I may follow your advice and contact CAS.

The newbie thread suggests complaining to the CEO of the retailer and I now have the contact details to do just that. I will ignore DRP from this point on and if all else fails perhaps the retailer will come to the rescue.

I hope you are better at giving or following directions when driving than you have exhibited so far on here.

It's here: -

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets#start

Hidden under a drop down menu: -


What are the rules in Scotland and Northern Ireland?

... and it says: -

"In Scotland there is no "keeper liability" (which means the owner of the car is responsible if they refuse or are unable to say who the driver was at the time) but BPA and IPC members can get owner details from the DVLA. Any disputes would then have to be settled at small claims court.

In Northern Ireland, the driver remains liable. If you get a ticket in these countries but weren't the driver, simply state that, as the owner, you're not liable for any costs, you aren't prepared to state who was driving and are under no obligation to do so. It's best to do this in writing so you have a record. We've a template letter to help if needed."


So, it tells you in Scotland and NI (that's the "these countries" bit) that the keeper isn't liable (that's the "no-keeper liability" bit) which is correct, but it then tells you to contact the PPC, which is just plain wrong.


It also says that owner details can be obtained by the PPC from the DVLA, but as already mentioned, they mean Keeper Details.

I agree it is badly written but I can't see any mention of Wales (where did you get that gem from?) The template letter is also carp and should not be used in your case.


I hope you realise by now that the people of MSE Towers are not as well informed as the most excellent volunteers who give up their free time to help out here.


The NEWBIES thread is the one of the most comprehensive and up to date sources of information there is on the planet concerning private parking in the UK. In future I respectfully suggest you look no further than this part of the forum.


Tell all your family and friends to come here if they get a parking ticket on private land before they do anything else.

nigelbb

IamEmanresu wrote: »

The DVLA specifically say that these are NOT the owner details. All they do is keep a big list of "registered" keepers - who may not even be the keeper on the day.

For example if you drive a hire car, you are the keeper but the DVLA record will show the HireCo as the "registered" keeper.

The DVLA only keep a register of vehicle keepers so that they know who is responsible for paying the road tax. The fact that the register can be used by the police or the data sold to PPCs is all incidental to the main function of making sure nobody evades road tax.