Cheapest rewire options in nightmare house

MrMaxP

Hi all,

We've just moved into a new house and the electrics are, let's say, interesting. So far I've discovered a double socket under the sink in the ensuite, evidence of a fire in the loft due to halogen lamps in the bathroom, random terminal blocks just left under loft insulation with loose wires. Two core flex coming out of the ceiling from location unknown when replacing a light rose, the upstairs and downstairs ring mains cross wired (both fuses need to be off to turn the sockets off), the cooker point seems to be wired directly into the ring mains and not have a separate fuse and many many weird choices for socket and light switch locations.

All this makes me think that it's A) not safe and needs replacing sharpish.

I can't afford 3-4k for a house rewire, but I am capable of doing it myself and following the Part P regulations. I fully understand that I can't sign it off and I accept that there are probably some things I'll miss or get wrong simply because I've done a part P course or worked any jobs in this area.

However, I am convinced it would be cheaper (albeit more painful) to do as much as I can myself.

So my question is, who else has done this? Do you simply inform the council and they schedule inspections to check your work? Who do you get to sign it off in this case? How much do these things cost? Would it be sensible to sign up for a fast track Part P course?

The main problem is I don't want to rewire all in one go but start with the consumer unit replacement then do a circuit at a time. Does this mean a new application with associated costs every time?

I'm just speculating at the moment and I imagine I'll get a lot of posts telling me it can't be done or it's more trouble than it's worth, but I'd really like to hear from someone who's actually gone down this route and their experience / costs.

Fingers crossed,
Max

zax47

Why do you think you need to go to the extreme of a re-wire? How old is the house? If it's PVC covered cable and there is an earth in the lighting circuit then it's not a given, not by any measure.

Firstly get a proper EICR (Electrical Installation Condition Report) done - somewhere between £150-200. This will give you a true state (not just what you think is wrong) of the existing set-up and you'll get an idea of what a) must be done, for safety, b) should be done, for compliance with new regs. & c) what's suggested to do, to improve the installation .

Remember though - wiring regs aren't applied retrospectively, what was deemed correct when the work was done is still pretty much OK. It might be improved, (as products and methods have changed over the years) but there's nothing to say you must make major changes UNLESS safety is an issue.

Part P of the Building Regulations basically says you should be able to prove competence and work to comply with BS:7671 - are you & can you? Get advice from whoever you get in to do the EICR.

macman

Socket beneath a sink is not against the regs, but most sparkies would consider it bad practice and avoid it where possible.
A cooker point, OTOH, must be on it's own dedicated circuit and not taken off a ring main.

MrMaxP

Good point. I was only thinking a rewire due to the large amount of spurs that have been fitted, along with the two sockets and one lighting circuit I've seen that have all had loose wires. The house was built in 1969 but I can't say for sure I've seen any original wiring yet. Everything I've seen so far has been red and black suggesting at least a decade old but was all on additional spurs and the lighting circuit in the extension. What were they using in 1969?

The main thing that concerned me was the cross-wired ring and the cooker that is somewhere wired into the downstairs ring, despite having 6mm cable. I was thinking that the work to expose all the cabling to find where it has been joined (if I could find it that is) may be time better spent to run new cable and make sure it's done right. I plan to replace every socket and switch anyway as they're all miss-matched and dirty. I'm a little phobic like that!

As for being a competent person I think I should be. I've rewired a couple of houses over the last couple of decades, and helped an electrician friend on a few jobs. Unfortunately, he moved to Scotland a while back or he'd be doing it instead of me! Without a qualification, I guess all this means nothing, but at least I'm confident

I am wondering if doing one of these online courses with the exam for a few hundred quid would help me out, or at least show me it's beyond me!

macman

What about the cost of the equipment needed to test the new install in order to certify it? You need a bit more than a pair of wire cutters and a neon screwdriver these days...

zax47

BS 7671:2008 amendment 3(2015) applies since July 2015. It has removed the "competent" or "not-competent" definitions and replaced them with Ordinary Person, Instructed Person and Skilled Person.

Ordinary Person. A person who is neither a skilled person nor an instructed person. (e.g. Joe Public);

Being neither electrically skilled nor instructed, ordinary persons do not have sufficient knowledge, experience or
supervision to avoid the dangers which electricity may create. Residents of domestic premises and the users of
caravans, boats and leisure craft are typical examples as are employees within the workplace unless specifically
identified as being skilled or instructed in connection with their work activities. It should be noted at this point that all domestic premises should be designed to be suitable for use by ordinary persons. As such, it is neither here nor there whether the current or prospective occupier is other than an ordinary person.

Instructed Person. A person adequately advised or supervised by skilled persons to enable him/her to avoid
dangers which electricity may create.(e.g. Apprentice or trainee under direct supervision of a "skilled person")

Both persons with some electrical knowledge and those with none may be classified as instructed persons.
This would include for example operators of machinery in an industrial environment and some grades of maintenance staff employed to carry out specific duties for which they have received specific and
sufficient instruction. It would also by necessity include trainees and apprentices who have to be given increasing
opportunities, albeit whilst suitably supervised, in order to allow them to become skilled themselves in time.
At the other extreme it is necessary from time to time for electrical plant rooms to be cleaned or redecorated. At
such times the decorators should be informed of particular hazards which may exist in the particular locations in which they are working. Nevertheless supervision by a suitably skilled person may still be necessary in some
circumstances even when basic instruction has been given. Clearly in such cases it will fall upon someone to carry
out a risk assessment...

Skilled Person. A person with technical knowledge, skills or training or sufficient experience to enable him/her to avoid dangers which electricity may create. (speaks for itself)

Persons become skilled as a result of a number of factors including guided learning achieved from completion of
appropriate education and training within a further or higher education establishment and supervised work experience within the work environment in which they wish to become skilled.
Generally speaking, becoming skilled takes a considerable period of time during which a transferable skills and
underpinning knowledge base is developed which can then applied to differing situations as the trainee is given ever more practical experience. On completion of a number of predefined objectives, which typically include both practical and theoretical tests, a person is judged to be skilled at a particular level such as electrician, approved electrician, electrical fitter, technician or the like.

Ok, so you think you're competent - but can you prove it?

Get an EICR done and go from there, under the guidance of an electrician.