Social Services want to move my frail Ma (92)

daisyroots_2

My Ma who is 92 is in a Nursing Home (NH) and until now this has been paid for from the proceeds of the sale of her house. However, we are now well below the threshhold required (she's got about £17k left) and Social Services (SS) say she will have to move to a cheaper home unless the NH will reduce their fees. SS point out that she has been self funding for years, the NH should recognise that and reduce the fees.

The NH say why should they, surely it is SS responsibility. The NH reckon a new Care Assessment will move her up from level 2 to level 3, meaning that SS must contribute. She had that assessment on wednesday and we don't know the results yet, but my sis and I are not hopeful. Although Ma can barely move, is doubly incontinent, cannot feed or care for herself, none of these are deemed to be Nursing Care, so SS don't think she will be assessed as level 3 and say if the NH won't reduce their fees, my Ma must go to a cheaper home.

The fees at the current NH are £2,800 per month. Her pension is £550 per month, leaving my sister and me to find £2,250 per month. We simply cannot afford this.

My cousin, who is a GP reckons she won't survive any move, let alone one to a worse place, as she is very frail. So in a few months time we will be faced with the following choice:

Move our Ma to a worse home and almost certainly hasten her death

Rob our own pension funds to pay for our Ma's care.

Any and all advice welcome

Optimist

There was a recent case that was similar to yours where the Law Lords ruled that old people in private care were not covered under the Human Rights act so the old lady in this instance had to move Sigh !!

However this would seem to be different departments ie the NHS and Social services not wanting to take the responsibility of your mother onto their budget. In the first instance I would get onto your mothers MP Surprising what a letter/call from an MP can do sometimes plus letters to the local paper wouldn't hurt

Norman-B

Oh dear. I'm so sorry to read your post. I am awaiting for a visit to my dad (82) who is in hospital, to see if he qualifies for nursing care. He has been self funding for the past 14 months but his nursing care fees are set to increase by 95% to £775 per week.

I'm really sorry I can't offer you any help or advice but I wish you well with your Ma.

Norm

EdInvestor

daisyroots wrote: »

My Ma who is 92 is in a Nursing Home (NH) and until now this has been paid for from the proceeds of the sale of her house. However, we are now well below the threshhold required (she's got about £17k left) and Social Services (SS) say she will have to move to a cheaper home unless the NH will reduce their fees.

This is too late for the OP, but for other readers, the way to stop this happening is to use part of the proceeds of the house sale to buy an "immediate needs annuity" which guarantees to meet the cost of the shortfall in care fees for life, and is paid tax free.In this case it might have cost about 50k.

Examples here:

https://www.hsbcpensions.co.uk/nhfa/pdfs/is6.pdf

The fees at the current NH are £2,800 per month. Her pension is £550 per month, leaving my sister and me to find £2,250 per month.

I assume she has been claiming full Attendance Allowance?

Ted_Hutchinson

Again it's a case of being too late for the OP but in the same way you can retain control by having the funds to cover the costs so you can reduce the chance of being in this situtation by ensuring you (or your loved one) maintain optimal Vitamin D status (it's now thought 137.5nmol/L is optimal for cancer prevention and this is around the figure for peak physical performance) Currently the UK average is under 75nmol/L it takes 400iu D3 daily to raise status 7-12nmol/L.

Low serum concentrations of 25-hydroxyvitamin D in older persons and the risk of nursing home admission Lower serum 25(OH)D concentrations in older persons are associated with a greater risk of future nursing home admission and may be associated with mortality.

frannyann

Make sure you have asked for a continuing care assessment. This would mean that if proved that her main needs are medical then PCT must pay for care. They may say the home is too expensive as I would imagine that their threshold is the same as social services, but you may be able to top up with her savings. Can I ask what the difference between the SS price and NH price is? You can ask for TUTP waiver, they don't like giving top up waivers, but say you were going to cause lots of fuss in say local press (not recommending this in any way) they may consider it.

daisyroots_2

Ted_Hutchinson wrote: »

Again it's a case of being too late for the OP but in the same way you can retain control by having the funds to cover the costs so you can reduce the chance of being in this situtation by ensuring you (or your loved one) maintain optimal Vitamin D status (it's now thought 137.5nmol/L is optimal for cancer prevention and this is around the figure for peak physical performance) Currently the UK average is under 75nmol/L it takes 400iu D3 daily to raise status 7-12nmol/L.

Low serum concentrations of 25-hydroxyvitamin D in older persons and the risk of nursing home admission Lower serum 25(OH)D concentrations in older persons are associated with a greater risk of future nursing home admission and may be associated with mortality.

Thanks everyone for your helpful posts, except for this one, which I could have done without. My Ma was a dancer, fit, slim and healthy for most of her life and ate a balanced diet. She speaks seven languages and won the prize for the best poem in Esperanto in the whole world about 25 years ago and went to Beijing to collect her prize. I will not be lectured on how she could have lived a more healthy life

daisyroots_2

Thanks for this - what is a TUTP please ?
Although she cannot feed, bathe, dress or feed herself, none of her needs are medical. I don't know the diff between SS price and NH price as neither have quoted. SS say she will almost certainly not be assessed as level 3, NH say she might be, and if so, and if we could afford £120 per month (I have said we can) then our Ma can stay. SS say unless we meet the full cost, she will have to move.

I consider this most unfair because

a) My Ma has up till now paid her way in full, has worked all her life and paid NI contributions.

b) If SS will pay for a cheaper home, surely that will cost them something. Why can't we pay the diff between that cost and what the current NH wants and keep her there ?

EdInvestor, yes, she is claiming the full Attendance Allowance

Errata

daisyroots wrote: »

Thanks everyone for your helpful posts, except for this one, which I could have done without. My Ma was a dancer, fit, slim and healthy for most of her life and ate a balanced diet. She speaks seven languages and won the prize for the best poem in Esperanto in the whole world about 25 years ago and went to Beijing to collect her prize. I will not be lectured on how she could have lived a more healthy life

Daisy, Please don't let Ted's post upset you. He posts the same stuff about vitamin D as a cure fore everything in response to all kinds of queries, whether it's relevant, useful, of interest to the poster or not.
I'm truly sorry to hear the predicament your mum is faced with. Sadly this happens all the time, all over the country. It happened recently to a lady in her 90's in my locality, no-one would give way, the print and television media highlighted her case and followed it up to no avail. The lady's family moved her to another home because they didn't want her to stay in a home where she was only viewed as an income generator instead of a human being.

mrcow

daisyroots wrote: »

My Ma was a dancer, fit, slim and healthy for most of her life and ate a balanced diet. She speaks seven languages and won the prize for the best poem in Esperanto in the whole world about 25 years ago and went to Beijing to collect her prize.

Maybe I'm just feeling emotional tonight, but I am so angry reading your post.

What on earth is this country coming to when we are turfing out 92 year old ladies from their homes because of money? Absolutely disgusting. Surely to goodness this is what we're all paying our taxes for? If not, why not?

I'm so sorry that I don't have any practical advice, but I wish you and your family luck.

Ted_Hutchinson

daisyroots wrote: »

Thanks everyone for your helpful posts, except for this one, which I could have done without.

It really wasn't for your benefit at all.
I was not lecturing you on your mothers current predicament.
Her past lifestyle has no bearing on her current vitamin D status. That is determined by the amount of time she currently spends outdoors in direct contact with sunlight or the quantity of Vitamin d supplement she is provided with. The half life of Vitamin D is around 2-3 weeks so whatever Vitamin D status she has now relates soley to that last few months, what happened years ago is irrelevant.

Many people will be reading this Seniors thread will be of advanced years and for these relevant information about how best to make financial provision for this eventuality or information enabling them to avoid or delay this scenario is important.

I recognised that it will not be relevant for your mother at this point but there will be other readers here on the borderline of independent living for whom retaining a high Vitamin D status will make the difference between falling and not falling, between being able to get out of a chair and walking to the door and not being able to do that. I know because I'm in that position and know personally the difference having adequate vitamin D status makes to my ability to stand and not be reliant on a wheelchair.

Lower vitamin D levels are associated with decreased muscle strength and balance capability in both men and women.