I don't understand why people can't be bothered!

Thrugelmir

alexmi wrote: »

This thread is so smug and self-satisfied, it makes me want to puke.

Don't let us stop you choking. The UK as a whole has a very poor savings discipline. Something that really needs to change. More discussion on putting money away for a rainy day rather than Apples latest profit announcement wouldn't go amiss.

ChesterDog

Sorry to go (perhaps, or then again perhaps not) further off topic, but Alexmi's 'puke post' reflects an attitude that may have a bearing on the OP's question.

My wife and I all but killed ourselves to reach financial security, but having done so, there developed among a few friends and relatives an attitude of "They've got more money than they know what to do with...". An attitude accompanied by a begrudging demeanour. Almost as if our security was achieved at their expense.

We have lent money interest-free to two friends and have never had it returned.

We have lent a large amount of money to a relative, on the understanding that this money was paying us an income which we need, so they must replace that income by paying interest. This has been accepted and has been running now for three or four years, but there is drfinitely an air of "You could have afforded to give it as a gift."

To some people who are very much in need of money (and in many cases [but I am not suggesting all] that is self-inflicted) having money and trying to educate people as to how that came about and how they might be able to do something similar, however small, is just seen as being self-important, smug or arrogant and being deserving of being taken down a peg or two.

Give a man a fish and he will come and ask for more. Try to teach a man how to fish and he will roll his eye, call you smug and demand that you give him another fish.

gadgetmind

Thrugelmir wrote: »

More discussion on putting money away for a rainy day rather than Apples latest profit announcement wouldn't go amiss.

Speaking as someone whose employer earns royalties on every iPhone, iPad, and most Android devices, please can people keep on doing a bit of both. Thanks.

Thrugelmir

gadgetmind wrote: »

Speaking as someone whose employer earns royalties on every iPhone, iPad, and most Android devices, please can people keep on doing a bit of both. Thanks.

I do appreciate the contribution that nanoelectronics makes to the UK economy. Far more than people imagine. I assume you know of the EU funded Europractice project?

gadgetmind

Thrugelmir wrote: »

I do appreciate the contribution that nanoelectronics makes to the UK economy.

Well, we're not quite down at that scale, unless you count 22nm devices.

Far more than people imagine.

For microelectronics (and computer h/w and s/w in general) yes, very much so. I do some guest lectures at universities and often show electron micrographs of some SoCs used in modern 'phones, and then show what silicon area has been designed by UK companies.

I assume you know of the EU funded Europractice project?

I hadn't, but some googling suggests its silicon flow for those who don't have their own. We're pretty much self-contained regards design, DV and tape out, and only need to subcontract wafers and packaging (but so does pretty much everyone else!)

However, it's good that such services exist for universities and start ups. Of course, we're also happy to work with startups, but as they often lack the cash, it can cost them equity.

missbiggles1

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Don't let us stop you choking. The UK as a whole has a very poor savings discipline. Something that really needs to change. More discussion on putting money away for a rainy day rather than Apples latest profit announcement wouldn't go amiss.

But this thread is about investing, not saving - even I know there's a difference.

Glen_Clark

ChesterDog wrote: »

Some years ago, my wife and I bought a business by using all our savings, taking out a loan and having a legal charge on the small amount of equity we had in our house. The business was very run down and it took years of extraordinarily hard work, long hours and every penny we owned. In spite of everything we tried so very hard to achieve, we were sinking. We worked every single day for five years without a single day off. Followed by another decade or so with just a handful. We actually agreed between us that if one of us died the other would not be able to go to the funeral: the business would collapse and was more important.

By the skin of our teeth, we pulled through. Just.

The business ultimately prospered and we sold it, but not before the sheer effort and stress of it had devastated my wife's health and damaged my own.

Once we turned that financial corner, we vowed never ever ever ever to put ourselves in that situation again.

Ultimately, the years of hell meant we were able to sell and invest the money to live on while retiring early. I say 'retiring early' but in fact my wife requires 24/7 care which I provide almost entirely myself.

But we have a high degree of financial security and that is because of investments and a low-consumption lifestyle.

People so often say that all that really matters is your health. It's not true. Financial security is vitally important. Investments can help to provide this, but you have to have the mindset to do it.

If you think I am smug because I enjoy what investments can provide, then try walking a mile in my shoes first.

Respect to you both.
Her Unelected Majesty the Queen stands as an example to us all that in Britain most wealth is inherited, not earned.

Glen_Clark

Linton wrote: »

significant numbers of people were living in abject poverty and many more living hand to mouth for the real physical basics.

The mainstream media seems to have created the impression that isn't happening any more. Yet hospital admissions of people suffering from malnutrition has increased 50%. Homelessness by a similar amount. Contrary to popular myth, Councils do not have a statutory duty to house everyone, and they don't

Glen_Clark

Malthusian wrote: »

if you try to make equities look as bad as you possibly can - by starting with the dot com boom - worldwide equities are either just above cash or just below it?

If you tried to make equities look as bad as you possibly can you wouldn't take today as the selling point.
Some of the posts on here worry me a bit because they seem to assume the future will be the same as the past. Its worth remembering that equity prices are inflated by near zero interest rates - which cannot fall as much in the next few years as much as they have fell in the last because they are already on the floor.

Malthusian

ChesteRDog wrote:

We have lent money interest-free to two friends and have never had it returned.

We have lent a large amount of money to a relative, on the understanding that this money was paying us an income which we need, so they must replace that income by paying interest. This has been accepted and has been running now for three or four years, but there is drfinitely an air of "You could have afforded to give it as a gift."

Two great posts. Apologies for going further off topic, but there is a rule in my family:

1) You can be someone's creditor, or their friend, but not both.
2) If a friend asks to borrow money, give it to them and forget about it. If they later decide to give it back, you'll have the happiness of an unexpected windfall instead of a worry and a social problem. If you can't afford to give it away, don't.

I'm not trying to be smug and I realise this is of no help to you, but it's a very underrated rule and it may help someone else in the future.

Glen_Clark wrote:

Some of the posts on here worry me a bit because they seem to assume the future will be the same as the past. Its worth remembering that equity prices are inflated by near zero interest rates - which cannot fall as much in the next few years as much as they have fell in the last because they are already on the floor.

We don't know what the economy is going to do in the next few years, but what we do know is that in the long term, all those issues - low interest rates, the oil price, vanishing honey bees - will iron themselves out and the returns from a diversified portfolio of equities will beat cash. Unless something truly apocalyptic happens, and in that case there is no investment strategy which will do you much good (no, not gold either).

We know this because otherwise there would be no point in investing in equities, and because all available evidence backs up this simple logic. "Past performance is not a guide to future performance" is for individual managers and investments, not basic economic principles.