Kicking co-tenant out- advice needed

ribbonstring

Hi guys,

Been recently having huge problems in the flat I'm renting and I'm about to take action, but need some advice to see whether this is the right thing or not!

I live in a flat with two other girls on a joint tenancy agreement (which doesn't end officially until next summer) and one of the flatmates has always been distant, inconsiderate, doesn't do the cleaning, and just is generally unreliable. A few months ago it turned out she'd quit her job, and around the same time some cash (£150) went missing from my room, however it could have been an AirBnB guest who took it, there's no evidence.

I decided to phone the estate agents to check if she had been paying the rent and turns out she hadn't paid for two months. We confronted her about it and she said to us that it was all a mistake and that she had paid. Turns out a week later that she lied, she's broke, and she's then asking ME to lend her the money for the rent. I did with the promise that she would go and stay with her sister while we rented her room on AirBnB to gain some of the money back.

She's been staying with her sister since mid October and has said she'll come back in December. We've since asked her to move out because we don't trust her and she's unreliable with paying the rent, and she's refusing. She said she will move out eventually but not for a few months.

November 1st has rolled around and we found out that she hadn't paid the rent then either...but now it turns out that she has paid, but a few days late. I'm so angry at the fact of how rude she has been about the whole situation considering we are all jointly liable for the rent, so slow to act, and expecting me to pay the rent for her and greet AirBnB guests and change the sheets etc. The estate agents are getting fed up with her after trying to phone her countless times and being unable to get hold of her, and I'm worried that if this goes on any longer that the landlord will just choose to evict all three of us.

My flatmate and I are considering this weekend packing up all her stuff, hiring a man with a van and asking her where her sister lives so that we can send the stuff to her where she's staying at the moment. I'm happy to pay her the AirBnB money to pay for her November rent. I've phoned the police and asked if this is an offence in case she threatens to get the police involved, and they said it isn't, but that she could take us to court for 'damaging' her possessions etc. However I believe that she isn't organised enough/doesn't have the money to take us to court.

What does everyone think?

Pixie5740

She is a joint tenant, legally you can't just kick her out regardless of whether or not she is paying rent. Forget what the police say, they know hee haw about housing law.

Being hostile (no matter how much she has P'd you off or how rude she is) will not get you the outcome you need or want.

A possible solution would be for you to look for another flat mate and see if she and the landlord will agree to a deed of variation being drawn up. That way she moves out and you have a new flatmate of your choosing rather than a bunch of AirBnB strangers in your home.

Guest101

ribbonstring wrote: »

Hi guys,

Been recently having huge problems in the flat I'm renting and I'm about to take action, but need some advice to see whether this is the right thing or not!

I live in a flat with two other girls on a joint tenancy agreement (which doesn't end officially until next summer) and one of the flatmates has always been distant, inconsiderate, doesn't do the cleaning, and just is generally unreliable. A few months ago it turned out she'd quit her job, and around the same time some cash (£150) went missing from my room, however it could have been an AirBnB guest who took it, there's no evidence. - So it's irrelevant.

I decided to phone the estate agents to check if she had been paying the rent and turns out she hadn't paid for two months. We confronted her about it and she said to us that it was all a mistake and that she had paid. Turns out a week later that she lied, she's broke, and she's then asking ME to lend her the money for the rent. I did with the promise that she would go and stay with her sister while we rented her room on AirBnB to gain some of the money back. - Again irrelevant.

She's been staying with her sister since mid October and has said she'll come back in December. We've since asked her to move out because we don't trust her and she's unreliable with paying the rent, and she's refusing. She said she will move out eventually but not for a few months. - She's absolutely correct.

November 1st has rolled around and we found out that she hadn't paid the rent then either...but now it turns out that she has paid, but a few days late. I'm so angry at the fact of how rude she has been about the whole situation considering we are all jointly liable for the rent, so slow to act, and expecting me to pay the rent for her and greet AirBnB guests and change the sheets etc. - Wasn't it your idea?! The estate agents are getting fed up with her after trying to phone her countless times and being unable to get hold of her, and I'm worried that if this goes on any longer that the landlord will just choose to evict all three of us. - He or she might do. You all owe the rent. Not just her.

My flatmate and I are considering this weekend packing up all her stuff, hiring a man with a van and asking her where her sister lives so that we can send the stuff to her where she's staying at the moment. - Would be completely illegal. I'm happy to pay her the AirBnB money to pay for her November rent. - Wait you kept the AirBNB money?? I've phoned the police and asked if this is an offence in case she threatens to get the police involved, and they said it isn't, but that she could take us to court for 'damaging' her possessions etc. - The police often say this. Until the man with a van disappears and your facing theft charges. Outside of this it's harassment which is also a crime. However I believe that she isn't organised enough/doesn't have the money to take us to court. - It's cheaper than you think

What does everyone think?

Probably get banned for writing what I really think.


Here's the nice version.


if your fixed term is up, give notice and move out, find somewhere else.

DandelionPatrol

ribbonstring wrote: »

I've phoned the police and asked if this is an offence in case she threatens to get the police involved, and they said it isn't, but that she could take us to court for 'damaging' her possessions etc. However I believe that she isn't organised enough/doesn't have the money to take us to court.

What does everyone think?

The police are particularly ignorant of tenancy law as they are of anything which verges on civil law.

Your legal way out of this is to negotiate her out of the tenancy.

macman

Since you are all jointly and severally liable for the rent, how comes she got two months in arrears and the agent hadn't informed you as well? I'd be wanting an explanation from them.
By letting on AirBnB you are almost certainly in breach of your tenancy agreement anyway, so that's a a really bad idea...it probably invalidates the LL's buildings insurance, so if one of your guests causes damage or burns the place down, he'll be suing you for the costs.
You can put her stuff out on the street, send it to storage or do what you want with it, change the locks..., but if you do so you leave yourself open to potential civil action by her. You are in a position to best judge how likely that is. She has the same tenancy rights as you, so you can't make her leave. Throw her out somehow and she'll most likely dob you in to the LA for sub-letting.
A better compromise is to get her to agree to pay the rent via you, or otherwise you have to check with the LA every month that it's been paid. How are you ensuring she pays her share of the other household bills?

G_M

* you CANNOT throw her out. She has a valid tenancy and as much right to live there as you

* whether rent is up to date or not does not affect that

* if rent is in arrears, the only person who can take legal action is the landlord. Against 'the tenant'. In this case, 'the tenant' is 3 people. A S8 notice for example could be served on you all.

* you could in theory start a private civil case against her yourself eg if you pay her 'share' of the rent to the LL and then claim it back off her.

* far better is an agreement of some kind eg

- the 3 of you ask the LL for an Early Surrender of the tenancy (likely to be a cost to this), you all walk away and find somewhere else to live
- you 'persuade' her (pay her?) to leave, and then use airbnb (though beware the issues with airbnb - but that's another story) and cover the rent between the 2 of you
- you find another person, 'persuade' her (pay her?) to surrender the tenancy, and either get a Deed of Variation or new tenancy from the LL

But I repeat, do NOT just lock her out.......

edit:

You can put her stuff out on the street, send it to storage or do what you want with it, change the locks..., but if you do so you leave yourself open to potential civil action by her.

if you did that to me, I'd check into a hotel and make a claim against you for the hotel bill. And for eating in restaurants since you'd deprived me of access to my kitchen.

ribbonstring

Okay thanks everyone for the advice. After some discussion with my flatmate, we don't think she will bother with court action but we decided not to do anything risky just in case she has a friend or somebody who would be willing to help her out in suing us in the future.

I've offered her some money to leave the flat before next month...no reply.

New plan! According to the Shelter joint tenancy fact sheet it says that which bedroom each of us occupy is not part of the contract. Could I possibly try and move into her room? It might be a bit of a loophole because how we divide the bedrooms up is between us to decide, and so I could say I'm moving into her room and therefore she'd have to sleep in the spare room (which she wouldn't like and therefore hopefully move out sooner). She could only remove me physically from her room...right? As she'd have no legal right to remove me from the flat we're joint tenants in.

G_M

You are right that in a joint contract, it is the entire property that is let to you all by the landlord. How you choose to use each part of the property is a matter for you all as joint tenants to determine.

Of course, it might be argued (eg by her) that there exists a contract between you as to which bedroom you each have:

her bedroom has been contractually given by you to her, in consideration (an important requirement in a contract) for her giving you your bedroom in return. Thus if you 'evict' her from her room, she could sue.

Now, this is pretty legalistic, and unlikely. More likely is an ongoing dispute wherein each time one of you goes out, the other moves all their stuff from one room to another, perhaps escalating to a point where someone's stuff is 'moved' to the bathroom rather than another bedroom etc etc.....

Eiter way it sounds unpleasant, but then the whole situation is.

giddypenguin

I don't mean this as harsh as its going to sound; but you all need to grow up fast. The 3 of you have a contract which you acknowledge doesn't end until the summer. I'm afraid your situation crops up occasionally in house shares - your housemate is obviously having some trouble, and your solution is to illegally bully her into making her homeless? How lovely of you.

Stop trying to think of loopholes and excuses - you are being very sh*tty. Be an adult, all sit down and discuss the situation like grown ups. Ask her if she's struggling would she like to help find someone to take over her room so she's no longer liable for rent, then hope the landlord approves the switch.

Sorry - but this post has made me a little angry.

Guest101

ribbonstring wrote: »

Okay thanks everyone for the advice. After some discussion with my flatmate, we don't think she will bother with court action but we decided not to do anything risky just in case she has a friend or somebody who would be willing to help her out in suing us in the future.

I've offered her some money to leave the flat before next month...no reply.

New plan! According to the Shelter joint tenancy fact sheet it says that which bedroom each of us occupy is not part of the contract. Could I possibly try and move into her room? It might be a bit of a loophole because how we divide the bedrooms up is between us to decide, and so I could say I'm moving into her room and therefore she'd have to sleep in the spare room (which she wouldn't like and therefore hopefully move out sooner). She could only remove me physically from her room...right? As she'd have no legal right to remove me from the flat we're joint tenants in.

What happens when she brings back a bunch of people to the flat? or starts using your room to have sex? or....

none of you can physically remove anyone from anywhere.

grow up, deal with the situation.

chappers

I agree, you seem to be trying to find ways to manoeuvre her out by stealth. Just grow up and face the situation head on. Call a meeting ask her if she really is struggling, tell her that you cannot continue with the situation like it is as it is potentially jeopardising your tenancy and try and find a solution.
Gang up on her if you like but at least have the bottle to do it face to face.
Stop trying to sort this with legalese and semantics and get back to the real world.