Do you fear "white flight"..?

C_Mababejive

#Great post..people like us, i guess thats what its all about.

I note that you say you might feel uncomfortable if you were living in yachty totty territory . I wonder if the yachties would ostracise you or start putting for sale signs up if for example they saw a transit van on your drive? I think there is a certain level of transit flight also. Some people see themselves as the new tribe of "professionals" and dont want to live near other "workers". I think there is a kirsty and phil element to that strand.

Even so , you may well feel uncomfortable if you were perhaps the underdog in yachtyville or powershowering pied de terre professionalville but at least you would be surrounded by affluence albeit mostly funded by debt.

If on the other hand you went to live in nelson or colne, you would be surrounded by stagnation,surrounded by mostly the indigenous pakistani community, perhaps feel overwhelmed by the preponderance of ethnic culture . The answer might be,well if you dont like it,dont live there, but then why should that be and why is it a poor area where no one but the largely pakistani community want to live?

Is there no prosperity within pakistani communities thus making these areas desirable?

If it were a chinese comunity would it be any different?

I note your comment about guarding your area and being watchful. I do the same. I dont live in a particularly posh area but its fine. I keep an eye out for undesirables and i do my best to suppress them.

barbiedoll

bouicca21 wrote: »

Where I live 'white flight' is back into inner city areas ...

^^^ This.
Areas in South London that were, for many years, thought of as predominantly "black" towns, are seeing a huge increase in their white, middle-class populations. White families have been priced out of their traditional, middle-class stomping grounds and have been forced to look further afield. You now see a much more diverse mix of ethnicities in places such as Brixton, Peckham and New Cross. We've even seen a petition by the (mostly) white folks who bought new builds in Deptford (with a large ethnic population but which is very close to Greenwich) and who want their postcode to be changed from SE8 to SE10 because otherwise their house/car insurance is too expensive! (They do have a brand spanking new Waitrose though, so don't feel too sorry for them.)

I live in a area which has seen a large ethnic population move in, simply because it is one of the cheapest areas in which to buy with a London postcode. It used to be mostly Asians but a few years ago, more and more black families started moving in...obviously priced out of their preferred areas by the middle-classes pushing up the house prices. This caused a mini "white flight", several parents that I knew through my son's school hastily moved out to the nearby suburbs of Kent. Of course, with the coming of Crossrail, we're all having the last laugh, our house values have soared (not quite sure why, there's been a mainline railway here since practically the dawn of time) and now, even the aspiring middle-classes are starting to think about moving back. Two of my neighbours are selling their houses and almost all of the viewers at their recent open days, were white families/couples.

I've never felt "uncomfortable" living with people of a different colour/race in my town. There's always been enough people of each to ensure that we have shops which cater for everyone, as well as ethnic food shops, hairdressers and so on. We all seem to rub along together ok. One of the most profitable local businesses is probably the African seamstress with her shop window stuffed full of colourful African outfits. She is apparently the first choice for parents who want a prom or bridesmaid dress for their daughters, my (white, Irish) neighbour commissioned a beautiful prom dress for her girl after hearing about her from another parent.

Brock_and_Roll

The most obvious cases of so-called "white flight" are in some of the North American cities such as Detroit where the effect has been devastating.


In Detroit's case, the loss of middle-class households moving out of the city, reduced the city's tax revenues, which in turn forced spending cutbacks which led to urban decay and a basically a viscous circle as the deteriorating conditions encourage even more people to leave the city to the extent that the city has lost nigh on 50% of its population and you could buy whole streets for a few dollars.


However, whilst the term "white flight" is used, it is more of an economic matter. Of course the majority of middle class households moving out were white but this simply reflected the longstanding & persistent factors in the USA that have led to black households on average being poorer with fewer life opportunities than non-black households. Of course many black and Asian middle-class families moved out of cities like Detroit, it is just the term "white flight" is snappy and attention grabbing.


So could this happen in the UK? Possibly, with the obvious cases being places like Blackburn and Burnley where there are large concentrations of 1st generation immigrant families. There are however big differences - unlike the USA, the UK has a comprehensive welfare system, so even if lots of tax paying households (of whatever race) move out of an area, the tax receipts of the local council are not particularly badly hit, so they are still able to provide a comprehensive set of public services such as schools.

clint_S

Blackburn and surrounding areas has some of the highest unemployment rates n the UK, Local cities like Liverpool, Rochdale, and Bradford are all in the top 10 highest unemployment rates in the UK. That is more of a reason why the house prices are low.


Is there white flight, yes. Some people prefer to live with people of ethnic similarity, most ethnic areas are that way because ethnic prefer living with people of the same religion and background. The bigger issue is the blocking of mixing in some of these areas. In a high ethnic area it is hard for someone not of that ethnic background to buy, in some case they simply will not sell to "outsiders".


America is a different as white flight happens and "chocolate areas", phase used by the Mayor of New Orleans wanting a black only city, are dangerous places for whites to go. America is Racist, both unconsciously and bred. I can take you to places where Whites are shot on site and blacks are arrested on site.

AdrianC

Poppy9 wrote: »

We have one area in our city that is now mainly (one ethnicity) and tbh it would put me off buying there as it's such an intense concentration and I would feel like an outsider.

Strange, isn't it, how those complaining about "white flight" seem to believe people of one ethnicity or cultural background can feel like this, yet those from others can't?

moneyistooshorttomention

C_Mababejive wrote: »

#Great post..people like us, i guess thats what its all about.

I note that you say you might feel uncomfortable if you were living in yachty totty territory . I wonder if the yachties would ostracise you or start putting for sale signs up if for example they saw a transit van on your drive? I think there is a certain level of transit flight also. Some people see themselves as the new tribe of "professionals" and dont want to live near other "workers". I think there is a kirsty and phil element to that strand.

Even so , you may well feel uncomfortable if you were perhaps the underdog in yachtyville or powershowering pied de terre professionalville but at least you would be surrounded by affluence albeit mostly funded by debt.

They definitely wouldn't spot a transit or the like near my place - unless I was having some work done. I'm told I'm quite obviously middle class myself (usually by someone making a jokey comment about my voice or not having to bother to ask me what type of coffee I want, because they know I'll answer that I want a "real" one LOL). However, I don't have anything like that sort of yacht/umpteen holidays a year type money and don't anticipate doing so:(. Hence I'd feel uncomfortable about having a much lower standard of living than that personally. I'd be lost in conversations - because of not being able to discuss my most recent holidays/fine wine drinking (as opposed to plonk that I buy)/opera and would feel out of place.

Recalling recent conversation over cup of coffee in someone's house here - and their comment about that house being one they had bought when they were downsizing and, in my head, I was thinking "How many bathrooms and bedrooms has this place got? Its rather bigger than I would actually want to have myself. If this is the downsized house - then I wonder just how big the previous one was.." and my finances are clearly nowhere near as "generous" as theirs are. I'm pretty okay with the size of house I've got - though I'd like a bigger bathroom/3rd bedroom/bigger garden - but it will do...

No-one would ever view me as "bringing the neighbourhood down".

What I meant by keeping an eye on my neighbourhood is down to unwanted redevelopment/unwanted type of businesses (eg takeaway food shops for instance).

Davesnave

C_Mababejive wrote: »

#Great post..people like us, i guess thats what its all about.

I note that you say you might feel uncomfortable if you were living in yachty totty territory . I wonder if the yachties would ostracise you or start putting for sale signs up if for example they saw a transit van on your drive?

Those who know money will be having a quiet chuckle as they picture her at the wheel of a Transit, shouting, "Boro da, which way would it be to Llanelli, then, bach?":rotfl:

Early on in our property search we wrestled with with the wisdom of buying on the fringe of Dartmouth, so I know exactly where money is coming from.

Eventually, the vendor saved us any more heart-searching by withdrawing the property, but had it not been as a business purchase, we'd never have considered living in that village, where everyone seemed "considerably richer" than us.

There is a Transit-type van in our driveway, but it's Mercedes, so I'm not in the least embarrassed.

ognum

I really don't understand this concept with regards to the place I live. I live in an ethnically diverse city where a guy walking down the street who could be considered a down and out is actually the emeritus professor of physics or a Nobel prize winner.

There is a mosque within a few hundred yards from my house and hundreds of university students of all back grounds live nearby. My neighbours are from many different ethnicities, backgrounds and social classes. The homes are owner occupied, rented and HMOs.

We all get along and enjoy where we live.

ReadingTim

Despite attempts at social engineering, multiculturalism etc, human beings are still fundamentally tribal beings who prefer to associate with those who share similar social, economic and cultural characteristics as they do, just as they did when they grouped together to form a tribe to survive against woolly mammoths and other predators. It's hard-wired into our DNA, and no amount of reading of the Guardian can change that.

"White flight" is only a thing because it rhymes, but the concept applies whatever the skin colour.

AdrianC

ognum wrote: »

I really don't understand this concept with regards to the place I live.

Probably because you don't view your ethnic group as somehow superior to any other, or think you have/should have any kind of priority or right to be in a specific area.