Builder's Charges per sq mtre ?

chappers

JWhite wrote: »

It may be academic at this stage as I have now been told I will need planning permission which will add another £700 apparently to the cost of the build of the garage. I thought that garages came under permitted development as long as they were no higher than 2.5m (at least that is what I have read on the planning permission website). Our garage would have a flat roof and would be within 3 mtrs of the building line of our property (at the bottom of our driveway) and butt up against the next door neighbour's garage on the boundary line. In fact our garage would be like a mirror image of his (don't know if he got planning permission), I might ask him to be sure. This is just what the builder told us when he came to look over the project.

My reply to that would be get another builder, just about everything you have posted that he has said in this post and others is wrong
Most simple garages will fall under permitted development and you can under PD build a garage up to the boundary, but to comply with PD there are further height restrictions if building one within 2m of the boundary. THIS guide is pretty good overview of PD

On the subject of your original question, I don't very often disagree with DG but on the subject of £/sqm I do, with the caveat that those sorts of estimates should be used with caution and by the experienced and in specific circumstances. She is however right once you get into the realms of special or unusual builds they are of no use, they should never be a substitute for a detailed estimate or quote, but for example I use a £/sqm estimate at the pre purchase stage of a development to assess the viability of a property and in my contracting my experience allows me to give a client a fairly decent ball park figure for standard constructions/renovations based upon their required level of finish, for various projects.
You just need to be aware of how the project affects the rate for example very small projects will cost proportionally more and very large projects less. I certainly wouldn't use these figures as too general a rule though, but with a flat roofed garage I would be pretty happy to stand by a figure of between £200-300/sqm or alternatively I can tell you that a couple of years ago I built a rendered block garage with a pitched roof for a client for just under £6k, client sorted electrics.

chappers

JWhite wrote: »

He has a friend in the Planning Dept. at South Staffs and he told him the changes are coming in next year apparently.

How can prefab buildings have to have planning permission when they are not permanent structures, have no footings, can be taken down and permitted development IS allowed for sheds ?

I have to agree with DG, also she didn't say that a prefab garage has to have PP just that it follows the same rules as a regular garage. For a building to be temporary it would have to be deemed that it could be put up and taken down at will and was built for that purpose, if you build a building with the intention of it being permanent then that's how its defined regardless of its construction.

I too have seen nothing to the effect of what your builder talks about and changes to planning and Building regulations are always announced well in advance and in fact can sometimes be used prior to their inception date.

Leodogger

chappers wrote: »

My reply to that would be get another builder, just about everything you have posted that he has said in this post and others is wrong
Most simple garages will fall under permitted development and you can under PD build a garage up to the boundary, but to comply with PD there are further height restrictions if building one within 2m of the boundary. THIS guide is pretty good overview of PD

On the subject of your original question, I don't very often disagree with DG but on the subject of £/sqm I do, with the caveat that those sorts of estimates should be used with caution and by the experienced and in specific circumstances. She is however right once you get into the realms of special or unusual builds they are of no use, they should never be a substitute for a detailed estimate or quote, but for example I use a £/sqm estimate at the pre purchase stage of a development to assess the viability of a property and in my contracting my experience allows me to give a client a fairly decent ball park figure for standard constructions/renovations based upon their required level of finish, for various projects.
You just need to be aware of how the project affects the rate for example very small projects will cost proportionally more and very large projects less. I certainly wouldn't use these figures as too general a rule though, but with a flat roofed garage I would be pretty happy to stand by a figure of between £200-300/sqm or alternatively I can tell you that a couple of years ago I built a rendered block garage with a pitched roof for a client for just under £6k, client sorted electrics.

I actually went onto that planning portal earlier today and from what I read I also thought it came under PD which is why I phoned South Staffs Council in the end a while ago, funny thing is the woman who answered said initially that we WOULD need planning permission when I explained what we wanted but when I said I had been onto the Planning portal and it seemed we wouldn't she said she would get someone in the Planning Dept. to ring us back !

There are so many differing opinions on this that I think I will just ask the neighbour and provided the planning laws haven't changed on garages within the last 10 yrs (which is how long he has been there), he should know and our garage will be side by side with his, identical.

Leodogger

chappers wrote: »

I have to agree with DG, also she didn't say that a prefab garage has to have PP just that it follows the same rules as a regular garage. For a building to be temporary it would have to be deemed that it could be put up and taken down at will and was built for that purpose, if you build a building with the intention of it being permanent then that's how its defined regardless of its construction.

I too have seen nothing to the effect of what your builder talks about and changes to planning and Building regulations are always announced well in advance and in fact can sometimes be used prior to their inception date.

The prefab ones I have looked at are classed as Temporary Buildings, not permanent.

wealdroam

JWhite wrote: »

The prefab ones I have looked at are classed as Temporary Buildings, not permanent.

Please provide a link.

Furts

JWhite wrote: »

I spoke to the builder about the value it adds to the property and he has been building extensions, garages etc. for 43 yrs and he knows the area well and said it WILL add value to the property most definitely because with a change of use later it can add further living accommodation to the property so could be used as an additional bedroom, living room, gym etc. He is going to give me a price over the weekend for the garage build. Also can I point out I would not class it "tiddly" at 8ft x 20ft. This size would rival many modern house 3rd or 4th bedrooms.

I am sorry to say I disagree. You are asking for mse users opinions on a garage. Yet your dimensions fail to meet what was the accepted minimum thirty years ago, and totally fail to reflect what a modern garage size should be. Bear in mind that a standard large garage door is 7 feet by 7 feet. and your 8 feet width will not accommodate this with suitable piers. Hence my comment about tiddly is correct.

To add to this you have yet to mention Buildings Regulations. By your own admission you are building up to the boundary so these need considering as does Party Wall legislation. But sticking to Building Regulations you wish to consider this garage as future "habitable accommodation" This then means cavity walls, insulation and further Regulations. All this increases the costs and complexity of your proposal. This will also reduce your 8 feet to under 6 feet internal.

Do you really consider this a valuable addition as a room?

By all means build a prefabricated temporary structure. But how will this add significant value, and how do you propose converting this to habitable accommodation?

Leodogger

Furts wrote: »

I am sorry to say I disagree. You are asking for mse users opinions on a garage. Yet your dimensions fail to meet what was the accepted minimum thirty years ago, and totally fail to reflect what a modern garage size should be. Bear in mind that a standard large garage door is 7 feet by 7 feet. and your 8 feet width will not accommodate this with suitable piers. Hence my comment about tiddly is correct.

To add to this you have yet to mention Buildings Regulations. By your own admission you are building up to the boundary so these need considering as does Party Wall legislation. But sticking to Building Regulations you wish to consider this garage as future "habitable accommodation" This then means cavity walls, insulation and further Regulations. All this increases the costs and complexity of your proposal. This will also reduce your 8 feet to under 6 feet internal.

Do you really consider this a valuable addition as a room?

By all means build a prefabricated temporary structure. But how will this add significant value, and how do you propose converting this to habitable accommodation?

"Yet your dimensions fail to meet what was the accepted minimum thirty years ago, and totally fail to reflect what a modern garage size should be".

You have missed the point entirely of why we are having this built, it is for storage ! Therefore, it doesn't have to conform to any accepted minimum or modern garage size.

I don't propose converting it to anything, I said the builder suggested it could be converted to living accommodation at some point in the future. We are building it to what we want to use it for, which is storage. I referred to it as a garage because it will have an up and over garage door and IF wide enough used for a car at some point in the future but not by us. If it is not wide enough for a car, it does not matter, the structure will be there for whoever wants to use it for something else, i.e. a gym, workshop, extra bedroom (with suitable conversion by them not by us). In any case, how many people use a garage for a car these days? Virtually no one.

Doozergirl

JWhite wrote: »

There are so many differing opinions on this that I think I will just ask the neighbour and provided the planning laws haven't changed on garages within the last 10 yrs (which is how long he has been there), he should know and our garage will be side by side with his, identical.

Are you trolling?!

How does your neighbour know what current planning rules are? You cannot have something without PP just because someone else does (which probably had PP as well) or because your loopy builder says something. What does putting stuff on someone else's side of the fence have to do with planning? Needing planning permission doesn't mean that you can't have it, but that you have to fill out a pretty simple form and do a drawing for it to be assessed. It's not hard. I don't know why people are so keen to avoid it.

Garages are worth something, but not huge amounts of money. No house is improved in value by having the possibility to extend or convert parts of it - or even the planning permissions to do it. That comes with actually doing it. Most houses in this country have the potential for further development - they're not all worth more than they should be as a result.

Furts is absolutely right that a building fit for future habitation that is 8ft wide, would only have 6ft of usable space - less once you count plasterboard and skirtings. I'd say that 8ft is the minimum internal width of any sensible room. If you think it has future value, it has to be built with some nod to the regulations. Otherwise, it's a fancy shed. Buyers will and do measure to see if their car fits. If it doesn't - they won't place value it, regardless of whether they will actually use it for a car.

Leodogger

Doozergirl wrote: »

Are you trolling?!

How does your neighbour know what current planning rules are? You cannot have something without PP just because someone else does (which probably had PP as well) or because your loopy builder says something. What does putting stuff on someone else's side of the fence have to do with planning? Needing planning permission doesn't mean that you can't have it, but that you have to fill out a pretty simple form and do a drawing for it to be assessed. It's not hard. I don't know why people are so keen to avoid it.

Garages are worth something, but not huge amounts of money. No house is improved in value by having the possibility to extend or convert parts of it - or even the planning permissions to do it. That comes with actually doing it. Most houses in this country have the potential for further development - they're not all worth more than they should be as a result.

Furts is absolutely right that a building fit for future habitation that is 8ft wide, would only have 6ft of usable space - less once you count plasterboard and skirtings. I'd say that 8ft is the minimum internal width of any sensible room. If you think it has future value, it has to be built with some nod to the regulations. Otherwise, it's a fancy shed. Buyers will and do measure to see if their car fits. If it doesn't - they won't place value it, regardless of whether they will actually use it for a car.

Look, when we bought our bungalow we didn't buy it because it had NOT got a garage, we bought it because it was the right price and it was the bungalow we wanted, the garage, there or not, was inconsequential to us. Not everyone considers a garage as a necessity, we have had 6 houses, 3 with garages and 3 without, in fact most people think "oh, great, extra storage space!"when they see a garage, as most people do not use their garages. In fact I do not know anyone with a garage that has ever put their car in it, only maybe if they are going on holiday but that's it.

The only reason I was suggesting that I would ask the neighbour was to give us an indication of whether we would have to incur extra costs for PP as he has his garage in exactly the same spot in his adjoining driveway as ours would be.

By the way our first house which was a traditional one had 3 bedrooms, the smallest being 6ft x 5ft and I know plenty of other people who have the same size smallest bedrooms or not much bigger ! We could only just squeeze a single bed in it and it was classed as a 3 bed semi so your comments are irrelevant on that score. Estate agents still class it as a bedroom whether or not you can even get a bed in, at least that is what we found when looking at houses !

"they're not all worth more than they should be as a result."

What is that supposed to mean ? A house is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

tony6403

JWhite wrote: »

By the way our first house which was a traditional one had 3 bedrooms, the smallest being 6ft x 5ft and I know plenty of other people who have the same size smallest bedrooms or not much bigger ! We could only just squeeze a single bed in it and it was classed as a 3 bed semi so your comments are irrelevant on that score. Estate agents still class it as a bedroom whether or not you can even get a bed in, at least that is what we found when looking at houses !

"they're not all worth more than they should be as a result."

What is that supposed to mean ? A house is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

That could not properly be called a bedroom.
The minimum width is 7ft with a total area of at least 75 sq ft.
You might get a cot in a 6 x 5 but not a bed for adults.