There must be a better way to buy electricity and gas…

SwanJon

modsandmockers wrote: »

Let’s imagine that the petrol suppliers were to get together and say - “Hey guys, we’re losing out here - let’s do it like the gas and electricity suppliers do it…. ...

What if the energy suppliers do switch to a 'petrol station' method?
Because the industry has so many different roles (before we even get to players in each role) it would become incredibly complicated.

For example, you come home and find out your gas credit has run out, so for the moment you don't have a supplier. It's summer so you aren't too worried about it. Now what if:

• You notice a gas leak from the pipe leading into your house
• Your meter doesn't work, so you can't top up again when it gets cold
• You believe that your credit shouldn't have run out - surely you didn't use all that in four days?
• You believe that you are getting lower quality gas than your cousin in Cleethorpes, so you get fewer kWh per cubic meter.

Without a supplier who negotiates these (and other) contracts on your behalf, who do you turn to?

SwanJon

sacsquacco wrote: »

But thats whats happening over in Northern Ireland. 41% ( and counting )of the population have gone for smart prepay even when they re using a fairly complicated meter like the Secure Liberty. They are seeing reduced prices too. Its not bizarre, its reality and theres a good reason for it. People like the convenience and ease of buying energy like this and its not just for the high risk bad debtors going for it.
Get the meters and the systems set up correctly and smart prepay will be the most cost effective way of buying energy.Self managed, no meter reads needed, no disputes, no theft and fiddles with credit meter defaulters. Once the suppliers get confidence and see its working properly I can t see why it can t be the cheapest way of buying energy. No need for a middleman supplier taking a huge mark up for doing virtually nothing.

But in NI they still need to switch suppliers, and they need to top up from only that supplier until they switch again.

I agree that moving away from 1980s technology to Smart prepayment will open up so many more options for customers.
Combined with even faster switching (not convinced we'll ever say one day switching though) this will get close to what Mods is after, but I think we'll always need to have a nominated supplier for all the other pieces of the energy supply jigsaw.

[Deleted User]

SwanJon wrote: »

But in NI they still need to switch suppliers, and they need to top up from only that supplier until they switch again.

I agree that moving away from 1980s technology to Smart prepayment will open up so many more options for customers.
Combined with even faster switching (not convinced we'll ever say one day switching though) this will get close to what Mods is after, but I think we'll always need to have a nominated supplier for all the other pieces of the energy supply jigsaw.

Northern Ireland only has four suppliers but they are way ahead of us with our dreadfully expensive and hopeless prepayment meters. Continually costing all suppliers, ( BG the most )trying to manage these things.They are non stop trouble and so easy to fiddle its virtually voluntary in some areas if they fancy paying for anything. BG can t offer me the prices they should be doing because of all the money they re blowing on prepayment meters.Credit meters are also costing the earth to run needing many thousands in call centres trying to cope with non stop insults and rants from dissatisfied customers who have no idea how to run their lives or their energy use.Smart prepay has got to be easily the most efficient way of doing it and should reflect it by offering the lowest prices. The only "gizmo " needed to top up, and see your credit, will be your mobile.Thats that slab of plastic in our pockets we all seem to be chained to nowadays.
Comparing the energy market with all its built in problems with the efficiently run mobile phone networks is a false analogy. No ones getting away with free mobile/data/texts and fiddling the systems like they are with the energy market.
TV licence fiddles are almost as bad and the BBC will be forced to adapt a new plan as buying a TV licence is just about a voluntary excercise nowadays.I know, I have to deliver TV licence reminders. Half my street in the rougher side of Doncaster don t possess one and dont think they need to buy one because they don t watch BBC

modsandmockers

SwanJon wrote: »

• You notice a gas leak from the pipe leading into your house
• Your meter doesn't work, so you can't top up again when it gets cold
• You believe that your credit shouldn't have run out - surely you didn't use all that in four days?
• You believe that you are getting lower quality gas than your cousin in Cleethorpes, so you get fewer kWh per cubic meter.

It's true that I hadn't thought of those issues but so far as I know the gas 'suppliers' don't have responsibility for the delivery of the product, nor its quality (meters are part of the delivery system). If there are are some exceptions to that generalisation, then it shouldn't be difficult to sort them out as part of the overall re-organisation and modernisation which the industry needs. There will always need to be a mechanism for ensuring continuity of supply. One-day switching will almost certainly lead to more stringent tariff conditions designed to make switching as unattractive as ever.

SwanJon

You are right that the 'suppliers' don't do that work, but they contract it out on the customers' behalf. This means we only need to call our 'supplier' and they will organise these. This vastly simplifies the energy industry for the customer.
It is possible you could shift this relationship to the local distributor, and each customer pays them a standing charge for all their work, and the third parties', and consumption is paid for as you describe.

Think back around 10 years when you paid line rental to BT and for calls to your choice of phone supplier.

A big change, more work for the customer - do the benefits make this worthwhile?

[Deleted User]

for meter problems at the moment we call our supplier,say British Gas, who simply redirect the call to either National Grid or my local DNO Northern Powergrid.Give the customers the same numbers the suppliers are using and they can be cut out altogether.Emergencies for gas we use the National Grid number on the gas meter .BG are easy to get in touch with but some of the others..forget it ! you can be hours.Thats how useless they are. For what they do in buying wholesale and retailing energy they are nor earning their money. Would be great to be done with the middleman altogether and its all possible with smart prepayment.
As you say Swanjohn you are an employee of a middleman so are slightly biased to the status quo. Its a pity the other suppliers don`t run their businesses as well as BG but they dont and they continually mess up accounts all the time.So why can I not purchase my electricity from Northern Powergrid direct via my highly automated and reliable smart prepayment meter, even in a bulk advanced purchase of say 2000kwhrs at a discount ?

modsandmockers

SwanJon wrote: »

You are right that the 'suppliers' don't do that work, but they contract it out on the customers' behalf. This means we only need to call our 'supplier' and they will organise these. This vastly simplifies the energy industry for the customer.
It is possible you could shift this relationship to the local distributor, and each customer pays them a standing charge for all their work, and the third parties', and consumption is paid for as you describe.

Think back around 10 years when you paid line rental to BT and for calls to your choice of phone supplier.

A big change, more work for the customer - do the benefits make this worthwhile?

The standing charge issue is worth discussing. In the recent abolition of two-tier tariffs we were told that, like it or not, everybody pays the standing charge and that it would be more 'transparent' if the standing charge were to be itemised on the bill. The new regulations also allowed suppliers to set the charge at zero, and one has actually done so. All the other suppliers effectively use the standing charge as the first tier in a new version of the banned two-tier system - they don't even try to pretend otherwise. I never used the landline system which you mention because I had the impression that BT were deliberately making life difficult for the users and providers involved. Landline/broadband providers continue to blame BT OpenReach for most problems, just as energy ‘suppliers’ routinely blame their sub-contractors for failing to sort out infrastructure and metering issues.

The very idea of a ‘standing charge’, or a landline ‘rental’, is pretty meaningless unless, like (for example) council tax, it is genuinely related to actual localised costs. In the privatised and so-called ‘competitive’ marketplace, operating costs and business overheads should be for the company to deal with - in Tesco there is a single price for a single tin of baked beans and some days there will a 2-for-1 special offer. In Morrisons, there may be a better deal if you can be bothered to take advantage of it. If the deal is particularly good, then you may decide to buy more than a single tin.

What’s so complicated about selling gas and electricity on a similar basis? So long as you have a smartphone, you wouldn't even need to get out of bed