Who is liable for this debt?

Marktheshark

The line between loan shark and friend is very thin and a very good defence for anyone facing a demand to repay money lent.
Did you get any agreements signed ?
If not they can simply claim the money was a gift and you end up wasting even more good money in court and have to pay him £90 expenses.
It will not be the simple court case you think it will, he files a defence which is downloadable from the internet in template form from Legal beagles and other sites and you have a right fight on your hands to prove you did not break the law in illegal money lending.
One of the tests for the act is the relationship between the two parties.
Lending to relations is rarely seen as illegal money lending.
Lending to unrelated persons and then making demands upon other family members to pay is, you say you have already demanded money from his mother after harassing her for repayment by electronic communication, again an offence .
You do not want this in court, you might need some pyjamas and a toothbrush.

"we texted her and she said she hasn't got the money and can she pay us just £50 with no indication of if or when the rest would be paid. We have said that isn't good enough and to get her son round her house on Sunday and we would come round and sort this out once and for all. "

This gets brought up in front of a district judge and you are going to be in a lot of trouble.


You really should have thought about repayments before lending money.

Candyapple

Both mother and son sound as bad as each other; if she's bailed her son out many times before you'd think she would be so ashamed that he has borrowed money off one of her friends and not repaid it that she would want to repay it quickly so as to avoid any further embarrassment about the situation, let alone affecting the friendship. Clearly she doesn't value your friendship at all.

Ultimately having a useless ponce as her son at his age will only get worse in the future and no doubt come back to bite her in the bum eventually so perhaps that thought can ease the bitterness partially. It's probably why she didn't want her partner knowing as he can see the son for what he is really like; a liar and a user.

Best of luck in your efforts of getting your money back, but sadly I don't think you'll be very successful. There's no point throwing good money after bad, maybe just chalk this one up to experience. Some people get taken for thousands before realising they will never see a penny again, although in your case it's less than £500, the time and effort in chasing the debt you and your family could spend doing something meaningful.

Voyager2002

Even going down the 'small claims' route, you are quite likely to spend around 500 pounds in court fees to get a hearing. (Assuming you are in England: things are different in Scotland). There is a modest fee when you begin a case and the forms are sent to the defendant; then there are various fees as the papers pass through the process; and a fee for the court to set a date for the hearing. They all add up: while the amount gets added to what the defendant has to pay after losing, if the defendant has no money a court order does nothing to help you. And if he behaves as badly as this to you he has probably done similar things to others and already has a bad credit record.

My suggestion is that you make it clear to the mother that her husband is going to be told everything, including the promise of payment after the house sale. And it is such an extreme story that the local paper might be interested: and of course the mother might care to know in advance that it will be going in the paper...

Ellie3773

Marktheshark
1) he was the son of friends
2) we knew him well enough to let him stay in our home and give him keys so he could come and go as he pleased - my husband has known him since he was a young teenager - 13 maybe 14 years old
3) we haven't demanded money from his mother - she came to our home and promised to pay us as soon as her house was sold. We visited her about 3 months after the house was sold and she asked us to wait until 30th October 2015 so she could get the money together. We texted her last night and asked when she what time she was coming round to repay us - not exactly threatening behaviour, is it, hardly demanding money with menaces, is it?
4) Since when has loaning money to a friend of many years standing and expecting to be repaid without interest is an offence? Or seen as loan sharking? Or asking for a loan to be repaid malicious communication?
5) With respect Marktheshark - what in your life has made you so nasty? I am simply asking for some advice and was trying to ascertain who is liable for the money owing to us - the son who borrowed the money or the mother who said she would pay it - I wanted to know if saying that meant she had taken on the responsibility of the debt, unfortunately to get to that question I had to give an outline of the situation, I condensed it as much as I could whilst still covering the salient points.
Are you like this with all new members or is it just me? Everything I read about MSE and the forums indicated this was a useful, helpful and friendly place to ask for advice and i in turn would help others if I could - why the bitterness? I searched the forums and online before asking the question, why are you trying to make me regret asking for advice and help?

Marktheshark

You sent his mother a text saying you were coming round to sort it out once and for all basically insinuating she must pay, she even offered £50 to keep you away .
I think you need to take stock of the facts, it is not her debt, her son is an adult and sending her texts making threats to come round and sort it out once and for all was not just foolish it was a criminal offence.
If this advice is perceived as bitterness, God help you when the judge hears it.
County courts are heard by District and circuit judges, not someone to get on the wrong side of trust me.

Ellie3773

Thank you Candyapple and Voyager 2002 - sorry, neither of you have a thanks button on my screen - I have never been in this situation before, either as a lender or a borrower so I'm at a bit of a loss on what the next move should be. Her husband is going to be told about it tomorrow - hopefully that'll set the cat amongst the pigeons. Thank you for the cost estimates for a court hearing, it niggles to let him get away with turning us over and I know it could have been much worse but you have both given us some advice and information to chew over - pursuing a small claim court case sounds so simple and cheap on the government website - sadly life is never as straightforward as it should be. The saddest thing from this situation is not the money it's that we have changed and would never help anyone again.

Ellie3773

You win Marktheshark, life is too short to be fighting with you (someone I don't know and who doesn't know me) - I'll delete my account. Goodbye and good luck in your life - try to be a bit more positive and upbeat, life's great if you let it be.

Herzlos

You can always send a letter before action to the son anyway; presumably the relationship is already ruined, and there's a chance he'll pay up if he thinks you'll pursue it.

But you should start to think of the money as gone, and treat it as an expensive way to weed out bad friends.

tonyh66

don't take any notice of Marktheshark, he's a troll or is just like the leech of a son who has betrayed your trust, and he is spouting rubbish.

Marktheshark

Ellie3773 wrote: »

Her husband is going to be told about it tomorrow - hopefully that'll set the cat amongst the pigeons.

I just do not think you grasp what you are doing sadly.
He is an adult, please stop harassing his parents before you get yourself locked up.
Sending threatening texts, involving his parents, we dont know their ages here but sorry what you are doing is breaking the law, it is harassment and several other criminal offences and straight from the loan sharks books .

Sue him by all means, its your money, but please stop threatening his parents and especially his mother and do not make any more threats to go round and sort it out once and for all, you lent the son the money, not his mother.
Take it or leave it, that is good advice if you want to stay out of trouble, you have already done more than enough to get yourself locked up.

If you want to pursue this money, you must do it properly by the courts and not make any more threats against people and do not send any more malicious electronic communications demanding she pay his debts.
The Malicious Communications Act 1988 covers sending threats by text messages,
"A person guilty of an offence shall be liable, on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine or to both".

I am trying to help you here, Stop threatening his relatives if you want to stay out of court yourself.

You can not make threats and demands that "someone else" pays what you regard to be a debt.

Amazed nobody else pulled you up on it.