ARMTRAC, Sennen Carpark & Disabled Badge Holder.

WilliamsSJ

Hi. This is my first post here, so forgive me if I get anything incorrect.

My Mum, who is an OAP, Disabled and has very limited mobility, recently visited Sennen in Cornwall, her first holiday for many many years. Whist she was there she decided she'd like to take her dog to the beach for an hour or two as he had never seen the sea before.

She pulled into Sennen car park which I believe is a piece of private land, asministered by the Harbour Master at Sennen harbour, and managed by ARMTRAC Security.

The car park was really quite busy on this day, lots of cars, vans, people, children and dogs running about. Having never visited before, she didn't know where the Disabled bays where, so she had a cursory look about paying attention to the areas you might expect to site a disabled bay. All the spots near the slipway, the entrance and the toilets where occupied and she couldn't seen any signposted. The car park notice board had a big sign in red and white which she read. The sign says "Vehicles parked in disabled bays must display a valid disabled blue badge in addition to the requirements above" The above terms where the usual "park within bays" "not parked on double yellow lines" etc. But also included "must display a valid parking ticket"

She couldn't find a disabled bay, so she parked in a bay closest the slipway and put her blue badge up and walked over to the pay and display machine. She then discovered she didn't have change, as she had expected to have found a Disabled bay, and decided to retrieve the dog from the warm car and walk over to the pub to get change. Upon returning, she walked to the machine, but could see a man stood at the side of her car writing a ticket. Bearing in mind my mum has difficulty walking and has recently had a knee replacement, this all took a lot longer than an able bodied person.

The parking attendant apparently observed my mum parked for exactly 21 minutes without a ticket. By the time she made it up to the car the man had driven off and she was completely exhausted, and by now distressed, upset and in tears. The parking attendant must have sat there and watched her hobble across the car park twice, to the pub and then back.

If she had known there where no Disabled bays at Sennen, she could have parked on the road outside. But no, she didn't want to block the road to traffic and possibly RNLI volunteers that may need to access the Life Boat in an emergency. She thought the big car park might accommodate a disabled driver instead?

Sadly, she is now faced with a £100 fine. She was so upset, she has taken 19days to tell me about it. To which I was my usual calm and serene self and said I would do my best to sort out.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Many Thanks.

Coupon-mad

You can ignore it, they are IPC scum. There is no appeal. She does not have a FINE.

Trouble is, I bet Mum won't cope with the debt collector letters so you may be best sending the appeal in the NEWBIES thread tomorrow, using Mum's name but YOUR postal address so all replies and rubbish letters come to you. THIS IS URGENT because otherwise they will buy your Mum's name & address from the DVLA.

Tell Mum you've sorted it.

NEWBIES thread is near the top of the forum, was there all the time with the appeal you need. Use the FORUM JUMP on the right to get there (one click on 'GO' on the right now) and read the newbies thread, please don't copy the template appeal here, we don't need to see it.

Does the PCN allow only 21 days to appeal and does this have to be done by POST? Better of it can be done online but not sure they do.

WilliamsSJ

Hi Coupon-Mad

Thanks for the reply.

Mums car is a Motability Scheme car, so Im wondering if the DVLA will only have them as technically its a lease hire?

I'll send the appeal tomorrow. Should I send it "Recorded" post?

Also, yes they only allow 21 days and by post only.

Again, many thanks indeed.

Coupon-mad

No, not recorded obviously!! Think about who is going to sign for it and when (it won't be Saturday will it - this bunch don't actually WORK and would only need it to be delayed in the PO one working day and it's late). Get a free 'certificate of posting' at the PO counter for a 1st class letter in the morning, and keep the PO certificate (a free receipt, basically).

Armtrac are IPC like PCM, who were exposed on Watchdog:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/is-it-pcm-uk-who-make-up-stuff-all-time.html

Ex-clampers acting in the same crim way, allegedly, as they always did. Armtrac are also ex-clampers.

Motability cars show the lessee's address (your Mum) so SHE WILL GET THE LETTERS unless you can head this off at the pass and give them your address/her name.

In fact, as this may arrive a tad late, I would deliberately water down the appeal from the Newbies thread, pick out just ONE point from it 'no loss/dodgy signs' would do, make it naive, like your Mum wrote it but only calling her the registered keeper, not saying who parked. Not talking about what happened.

Summat like: 'a ticket was placed on my Motability car, I am the registered keeper and disabled. Your signs were not seen and this charge is disproportionate to any loss so please cancel it'.

They won't!

ampersand

Dear WSJ, this is precisely the sort of situation which makes us all sick with the filthy practice of these lowlifes.

You will soon realise c-m is the one of the big hitters on this Forum. She wrote the newbies stickies and keeps them updated.
Just a tiny add-on which may help Mum and it's something we really emphasise to newbies.

IT IS NOT A FINE!

It is just a cheeky unenforceable 'invoice', a fake invoice, a speculative invoice. It has no legal authority or force whatsoever, in any shape or form.

Of course the letters that come from these private parking scumpanies[that's my word for them:p]have to look official.

This is deliberate.

They are designed to frighten everyone, not just people like Mum, into paying ridiculous sums, without any legal justification. They pretend threats about credit ratings being negatively affected, about Court proceedings, about mortgage finance being refused...there is no level beneath which they will not - and do not- descend.

There are parking fines, but only Police, Council Traffic Wardens and London Transport officials can issue those.

Their tickets are called Penalty Charge Notices, or PCNs.
Scumpany ones are called Parking Charge Notices, or PCNs
-spot the difference.

I hope both you and Mum can see this and be reassured.
Ivor Pecheque has plenty to say about all the shysters and parking pirates in this area[and others], but he successfully made them pay him!
:T:D:j

There is serious knowledge, but also laughter, encouragement and disbelief to had from Parking Prankster's blog:
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/
#
Hope that 1st acquaintance with Big Sea is not long delayed. Try again soon. It's supposed to be unseasonably warm this w/e.
#
Welcome to mse. We are so glad when someone finds their way here, for real help against this bounty-hunting thuggery.

WilliamsSJ

Im a bit confused....whos PCM? Do they own Armtrac???

Redx

WilliamsSJ wrote: »

Im a bit confused....whos PCM? Do they own Armtrac???

I think a few people are confused here, but its still an IPC member so all that advice is correct

its actually

KBT Cornwall Ltd (Trading as Armtrac Security Services)

dont bother with recorded delivery, just go to the counter and ask for a free certificate of posting

as mentioned earlier, motability cars are registered with the KEEPERS name and address, but Motability keep the V5C

Coupon-mad

WilliamsSJ wrote: »

Im a bit confused....whos PCM? Do they own Armtrac???

Whoops, I was lumping all the ex-clampers together in the same cess pit there...oh wait, a certain Trade Body already did that...:cool:

WilliamsSJ

Hi.

Ive had a letter back from ARMTRAC, dated 25th Nov. It actually arrived at my house on Saturday the 12th Dec???

The letter states they "Reject Drop Hands Offer". Their reson is "No valid ticket can be seen within your vehicle at the time of inspection by our patrol officer and the PCN was legitimately issued"

Its a seven page letter, with photos etc, and is quite lenthy and thick with legal talk?

The letter states:

Our photgraphic evidence shows your vehicle was not displaying a valid ticket and you where legitimately issued with a PCN.

We can see in the photographic evidence that we hold for this PCN that your vehicle was displaying a Disabled Blue Badge and Clock but this does not give you permission to park for free as there are NO Disabled Concessions at this site. This site is Private Landand it is up to the landowner's of the car park if they want to offer Disabled Concessions and if there are anyDisabled Concessions then they would be clearly displayed on the tariff boards on site. If there are NO Disabled Concessions stated on the tariff boardthen they arenone at this siteand you need to buy a pay and display ticket for the stay within the car park and return on or before the expiry time printed on the ticket. The Disabled Blue Badge handbook states "Off-street car park operators should provide parking spaces for disabled people. However, it is up to the car park owner to decode wether badge holders can park for free of charge. Do not assume you can always park for free", therefore blue badge holders have been made fully aware that they are not to assume the badge gives the the right to park for free and to check the terms and conditions of parking at the car park before leaving the vehicle on site. As already stated if there was any disabled concessions at this site then they would be clearly detailed on the tariff board. Please be aware that the rules concerning Disabled Blue Badge/Zero Taxed/Mobility Vehicles are different on Private Land parking and Council Parking, therfore it is a drivers responsibility to ensure that they arefully aware of the terms and conditions of parking before leaving their vehicle"

Later in the letter it says:

Reguarding your comments "I will only appeal further if you offer POPLA, the only independant ADR with a scrutiny panel and trained Assessors. The 'IAS' offered by IPC firms will not be used, for well docimented reasons". Please be aware that POPLA will not ne offered as we are not a BPA (British Parking Association) member od if you would like to appeal further then you will need to us the IAS service offered by the IPC. We have attached a scanned copy of a newsletter recieved from the IPC reguarding the IAS and ADR and also a printout taken from the IAS website (the havent actually attached anything) which clearly informs you that the Assessors for the IAS are 'Independent, practicing solicitors and barristers'. Further information reguarding the IAS and ADR can be found on the IAS website.

Noting the date of the letter and the actual delivery date, it states later in the letter that I should "Pay the Parking Charge Notice of £100 within 14 days". Which I clearly cannot, as the letter arrived 17days after it was dated. There was no visible date on the franking print on the envelope?

It also states I can make an appeal to the IAS up to 21 days after the rejection of my appeal? So I guess I have four days to do this now??


Whats your advice???

Feeling a little baffled and overwhelmed to be honest?

Umkomaas

Read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky post #3 about whether you should appeal to the IAS. Only 20% of appeals are upheld - and there's no pattern to the reasons for upholding, suggesting a rather random approach to dealing with appeals.

There's no easy way of getting rid of this charge, nothing we can offer as a quicksilver solution. But the landowner can - easily, if he's minded. Have you been in touch with the Harbour Authorities? Have you prayed in aid the Equality Act 2010 to reinforce your Mum's protection under the Act with the Harbour Master?

Otherwise, you need to brace yourself for the probability of receiving debt collector letters, which are entirely without any clout, other than the aggravation factor, and can be ignored.
The only things you need to be prepared for (although only a very tiny % of people receive them) are court papers. Don't ignore those, come back if you get any.

nickcc

In no way am I supporting these car park scum but in Cornwall there is no exemption, even in council car parks, for the disabled. What you get is an extension on your parking ticket, one extra hour if I remember correctly.

I often see disabled drivers leaving their cars with the disabled badge etc correctly displayed and parked in the disabled parking bays only to return to find a parking ticket on their windscreen. The signs displayed next to the ticket machines do state quite clearly what the restrictions are.