Chased for a debt that previous owners settled: updated post 35

Guest101

TBagpuss wrote: »

the dialogue would be more like:

Judge: What do the fees related to?
Claimant: Bailiff dees for collecting over due ground rent
Judge: When wer ethe fees incurred?
Claimant: October 2015
Judge: defendent - why do you think you shouldn't pay these costs
Defencent: Because the rent was paid in full in August 2015. The bailiffs appear to have been instructed due to an admin error bu the freeholder who failed to record that pauyment had been received. Here's a copy of the receipt from the freeholders dated August 2015

Can we stop calling them Bailiff fees, they aren't. Bailiff fees are governed by regulation.


These are debt collection fees. - just happen to be written by a firm of bailiffs.

DandelionPatrol

Guest101 wrote: »

The Ground rent is paid. It was paid prior to the debt enforcement action.

silvercar says their solicitor says the vendor's solicitor says .... we only have this 3rd hand. No doubt it is now paid, but if the vendor's solicitor did not get around to it until prompted by silvercar's solicitor ["Oh, I'll just check - call you back" quickly writes cheque - "Definitely sorted] then we end up in the present situation

Guest101 wrote: »

The fees are unenforceable for that reason, as well as the fact that the OP was never in arrears.

OP was in vendor's solicitor's hands over never being in arrears

Guest101 wrote: »

But you know that, so i'm not sure why your being difficult.

You obviously have issues.

Guest101

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

silvercar says their solicitor says the vendor's solicitor says .... we only have this 3rd hand. No doubt it is now paid, but if the vendor's solicitor did not get around to it until prompted by silvercar's solicitor ["Oh, I'll just check - call you back" quickly writes cheque - "Definitely sorted] then we end up in the present situation - Possible, but that's not what the OP said. We cant make up the situations. OP says it's been paid and advice should be given on those circumstances


OP was in vendor's solicitor's hands over never being in arrears - Right, but again it's the information we have to work with


You obviously have issues. -Many, but don't we all

Even if what you say is correct (ie fees not paid until now) the OP clearly has a case against the Vendor, who in turn has a case against their solicitors. The solicitors would be the ones to pay these fees if that's the case.

wwl

Guest101 wrote: »

Don't listen to this 'advice'.
2: Harassment cannot be 3rd party - only the person/entity doing the 'harassment' can be charged with 'harassment'

So does that mean anyone can avoid harassment charges by getting someone else to do it?

3: You cannot charge the Vendor any money, as there is no contract.

By notifying them that any further action will result in charges, their continuing to take further action (by failing to settle matters with debt collectors/bailiffs) could be deemed to be acceptance of your terms.

Whether legally enforceable or not, a strongly worded letter may at least make them more inclined to get things sorted.

Angie_B

Service charges, ground rents and other leasehold fees are typically attached to a property, not an owner. This is why it is so important to ensure that you have up to date accounts direct from the freeholder when you are buying a leasehold property as that debt will transfer to you.

I had a very similar issue when I bought my flat. The previous owner had let the service charges go into arrears. We contacted the Freeholder for a final account statement to ensure it was paid off from the proceeds of the sale when I bought. 8 months later, I get a nasty letter from a debt collector stating I owe £500 on the account and that if I don't pay within 7 days they will take me to court and get a CCJ against me.

I couldn't get it sorted within the 7 days so I ended up having to pay the amount to avoid ruining my credit file. Thankfully, my Freeholder admitted that I should never have had to pay this, as it was clearly related to a time when I was not in ownership of the property and we had paid off all outstanding debts as advised by the Freeholder on the sale.

The Freeholder had neglected to mention that they had sold a portion of the previous owner's debt to another company so it was no longer showing on their accounts. It was this other company who came calling.

I got a full refund from my Freeholder as it was their mistake in giving me a settlement figure for outstanding debts which was actually incorrect.

But legally, the debt belonged to the property and hence I inherited it when I bought, so don't just ignore it as "I didn't own the property, it's not my responsibility". It is your responsibility but you should have a good case for it being an unfair charge. Have you spoken to the Freeholder direct?

DandelionPatrol

Angie_B wrote: »

I had a very similar issue when I bought my flat. The previous owner had let the service charges go into arrears. We contacted the Freeholder for a final account statement to ensure it was paid off from the proceeds of the sale when I bought. 8 months later, I get a nasty letter from a debt collector stating I owe £500 on the account and that if I don't pay within 7 days they will take me to court and get a CCJ against me.

I couldn't get it sorted within the 7 days so I ended up having to pay the amount to avoid ruining my credit file. Thankfully, my Freeholder admitted that I should never have had to pay this, as it was clearly related to a time when I was not in ownership of the property and we had paid off all outstanding debts as advised by the Freeholder on the sale.

As you were able to pay anyway, you could have let it go to court. Even if you had lost, provided you paid within 28 days, your credit record would not have been touched.

Guest101

wwl wrote: »

So does that mean anyone can avoid harassment charges by getting someone else to do it? - The person doing the harassment is the person who the police will investigate. If my mate Ben calls you up 25 times, the police aren't going to be knocking at my door. Since the debt collectors are agents of the freeholder, the freeholder is equally liable for the actions. The vendor is not part of this.

By notifying them that any further action will result in charges, their continuing to take further action (by failing to settle matters with debt collectors/bailiffs) could be deemed to be acceptance of your terms. - No it couldn't. You cannot impose a contract on a 3rd party. You deal with the debt collectors. there is no 'failure to act' in this regard.

Whether legally enforceable or not, a strongly worded letter may at least make them more inclined to get things sorted.

It may help get it sorted, or you might end up with a call from the police for harassing the vendor.

Guest101

Angie_B wrote: »

Service charges, ground rents and other leasehold fees are typically attached to a property, not an owner. This is why it is so important to ensure that you have up to date accounts direct from the freeholder when you are buying a leasehold property as that debt will transfer to you.

I had a very similar issue when I bought my flat. The previous owner had let the service charges go into arrears. We contacted the Freeholder for a final account statement to ensure it was paid off from the proceeds of the sale when I bought. 8 months later, I get a nasty letter from a debt collector stating I owe £500 on the account and that if I don't pay within 7 days they will take me to court and get a CCJ against me. - Not how CCJs work. You'd have had a lot more than 7 days. And even if you lost in court, you could just pay and not have a CCJ.

I couldn't get it sorted within the 7 days so I ended up having to pay the amount to avoid ruining my credit file. - Probably should've got advice on the matter. Thankfully, my Freeholder admitted that I should never have had to pay this, as it was clearly related to a time when I was not in ownership of the property and we had paid off all outstanding debts as advised by the Freeholder on the sale.

The Freeholder had neglected to mention that they had sold a portion of the previous owner's debt to another company so it was no longer showing on their accounts. It was this other company who came calling.

I got a full refund from my Freeholder as it was their mistake in giving me a settlement figure for outstanding debts which was actually incorrect.

But legally, the debt belonged to the property and hence I inherited it when I bought, so don't just ignore it as "I didn't own the property, it's not my responsibility". - Yes the debt belongs to the property, but not the fees attached to enforcement. It is your responsibility but you should have a good case for it being an unfair charge. Have you spoken to the Freeholder direct?

And of course there is the option to sue the vendor

Angie_B

Guest101 wrote: »

Probably should've got advice on the matter.

And of course there is the option to sue the vendor

I did take legal advice on the matter before I did anything, thanks. The advice I had was that it was going to be a lot more time and hassle going to court (taking time off work, etc) than to pay and reclaim it from the Freeholder, which is what I did and which worked out perfectly well for me.

And yes, otherwise I would have taken the vendor to small claims.

Guest101

Angie_B wrote: »

I did take legal advice on the matter before I did anything, thanks. The advice I had was that it was going to be a lot more time and hassle going to court (taking time off work, etc) than to pay and reclaim it from the Freeholder, which is what I did and which worked out perfectly well for me.

And yes, otherwise I would have taken the vendor to small claims.

But had you won in court you would've claimed back costs?


Anyway you made it sounds like you thought (or the advice given to you) was that you would get a CCJ if you didn't settle with-in 7 days - which is not accurate.