kitchen discounts (Howdens)

leveller2911

Doozergirl wrote: »

Leveller, you're going down in my estimation if you think that's fair play?

I'll delete this post if you delete yours.

I'm not deleting it DG, but I have edited my post..........

WannaBLoaded

Did i miss something?

Is it me taking the moral high ground? I am not against people debating but there's all sorts being thrown around here by a certain poster, another mentioning fraud haha.

Personally i have only ever encountered mass produced kitchen goods and i am not really in a position to say whether howdens goods are good, average or cheap overpriced crap.

I will be hopefully buying a house to renovate next year and will have more time to shop around so will open a few more trade accounts with different companies and educate myself a little more.

Benchmarx seems to be an incredibly similar set up to howdens but unfortunately their branches aren't exactly local, or as local.

I may even buy flat pack instead of pre build to see what sort of £££ that can save.

woodbutcher_2

CKdesigner wrote: »

If I really think about it, Howdens doesn't really affect what my company does. I started my company over 14 years ago now because I realised I was fairly good at designing kitchens and enjoyed it, which means I have a passion for what I do. And this means I expect our suppliers and our employees to have a similar passion. I also think that our customers recognise and understand this passion and actually want a part of it.

Then I look at companies like Howdens and see nothing, no design skills, no quality of products and the only desire is to make things as cheaply as possible and sell them for as much money as possible and use whatever tactics it can think of to achieve as much profit as possible. I think this 'policy' acts like a disease that permeates through all aspects of the business and leaves no care given to the end user. Sorry I just find this sad.

CK

I'm also good at designing kitchens, which i also fit myself and arrange all trades from start to finish. Do you think that i give no care to the end user or is it just Howdens themselves that get your ire?

Not everyone can afford a designer German kitchen with a dedicated designer working from a swanky showroom. I work from home and will fit any kitchen the customer wants me to, even flat pack from B&Q. If they want better quality, then i will source it but whichever kitchen i fit, i will charge the customer what i paid for it plus labour charges. I'm hoodwinking no-one.

You seem to be very bitter towards kitchen discounters and the fact that you think a kitchen designer is on a par with an architect is laughable.

CKdesigner

woodbutcher wrote: »

I'm also good at designing kitchens, which i also fit myself and arrange all trades from start to finish. Do you think that i give no care to the end user or is it just Howdens themselves that get your ire?

Not everyone can afford a designer German kitchen with a dedicated designer working from a swanky showroom. I work from home and will fit any kitchen the customer wants me to, even flat pack from B&Q. If they want better quality, then i will source it but whichever kitchen i fit, i will charge the customer what i paid for it plus labour charges. I'm hoodwinking no-one.

You seem to be very bitter towards kitchen discounters and the fact that you think a kitchen designer is on a par with an architect is laughable.

Sorry I don't mean to offend as I am sure you do a very good job for your customers. My problem is with dishonesty, and I believe Howdens trade dishonestly. It's irrelevant if double glazing companies or the like do the same, it's no justification.

I have been in the industry for more than 2 decades and I believe in sustainable growth through customer service, this means doing my research, knowing everything I possibly can about the industry, manufacturers and products. Without this information then I can't do my job properly. I also expect the same dedication from people that work for me.

Just to clarify for the second time about my point about kitchen designers held in the same regard as Architects. I certainly was not talking about in the UK. We work closely with several German companies so therefore I have a fair bit of knowledge about the German kitchen industry, and it's in Germany that kitchen designers are well trained and are regarded like architects. So what I am saying is it's a shame the UK industry isn't more like the German one as then I believe the standard of design and product quality would rise in the UK.

CK

CKdesigner

WannaBLoaded wrote: »

Did i miss something?

Is it me taking the moral high ground? I am not against people debating but there's all sorts being thrown around here by a certain poster, another mentioning fraud haha.

Personally i have only ever encountered mass produced kitchen goods and i am not really in a position to say whether howdens goods are good, average or cheap overpriced crap.

I will be hopefully buying a house to renovate next year and will have more time to shop around so will open a few more trade accounts with different companies and educate myself a little more.

Benchmarx seems to be an incredibly similar set up to howdens but unfortunately their branches aren't exactly local, or as local.

I may even buy flat pack instead of pre build to see what sort of £££ that can save.

You were accusing me of 'bad mouthing' another business, saying it's poor form. I have reread my posts and nowhere have I been 'bad mouthing' Howdens, I have merely been explaining their trading policies to the orginally poster.

You say you don't have much experience outside of the Howdens ish part of the industry, this is fine, please enjoy your research!

CK

WannaBLoaded

CKdesigner wrote: »

You were accusing me of 'bad mouthing' another business, saying it's poor form. I have reread my posts and nowhere have I been 'bad mouthing' Howdens, I have merely been explaining their trading policies to the orginally poster.

You say you don't have much experience outside of the Howdens ish part of the industry, this is fine, please enjoy your research!

CK

Ok fair enough, maybe i am being over the top. You seem to know a fair bit and enjoy what you do :money:

I'm not sure i will enjoy my research, but there's good money to be made from kitchens so it is probably best if i do start taking more of an interest. Not sure i will share your passion, though

One thing i will never do is sell at cost price whether this is deemed morally questionable or not. There's no incentive to offer an after care service on goods that you make nothing out of. If you search the web you often find general consumers moaning about issues with their kitchens and when they go to the kitchen company direct they say 'speak to your builder'. If you have only been paid to fit the kitchen, there's not enough money and resource to go the extra mile, really...

When we price up a kitchen to do everything we merely give an overall price to do it all. The actual cost of the kitchen, really, is neither here nor there. If our price is competitive and offers value to the customer, like us doing everything and them not having to get lots of different quotes, and the price is within their budget, we all win..

WannaBLoaded

What do you guys think about this 'gower' who seem to supply benchmarx and other trade companies like Stax trade centre, it also seems as if they supply magnet?. We have looked at the kitchens in stax trade before now and found the backs of the units to be flimsy and on the base carcasses they have that little gap between the back bar and the worktop meaning that you can see the wall behind. Howdens cover totally so you don't have to worry about how the wall looks.

The doors and draws seemed relatively good quality from memory.

They have price lists on their site, their site looks a bit corporate so presumably that price list is for the big boys and not small fry? http://www.gower-furniture.co.uk/brochures/

leveller2911

WannaBLoaded wrote: »

What do you guys think about this 'gower' who seem to supply benchmarx and other trade companies like Stax trade centre, it also seems as if they supply magnet?. We have looked at the kitchens in stax trade before now and found the backs of the units to be flimsy and on the base carcasses they have that little gap between the back bar and the worktop meaning that you can see the wall behind. Howdens cover totally so you don't have to worry about how the wall looks.

The doors and draws seemed relatively good quality from memory.

The carcases , like most carcases are a simple box made from cheap materials. How many carcase colours do they offer?.

The spec doesn't mention which brand of drawer runners/hinges they use and experienced fitter/manufacturers know there are cheap poor quality fittings and good quality so you get what you pay for in general. I personally prefer Grass over Blum or Hettich but others may disagree. Offering a "soft close" as a option is very old hat now and should be standard and integrated in the runner/hinge and not something you clip on. There are some nice "touch to open" systems too but very expensive.

Offering a 5yr warranty is basic imo. Think about it, what stress is a carcase ever put under, its got no moving parts for one thing and once fixed never moves so nothing wears. Any warranty is limited to manufacturing faults which is not easy to prove.

When you mention the gap above the back panel so you can see the wall. You only see this if you kneel down on the floor and look up so most people would never see it but it also serves a purpose which is when you close a door or drawer the air in that unit needs to escape very quickly otherwise the door/drawer can't shut fully until all the air seeps through the gaps.That gap enables the air pressure to equelise quickly.

It also allows for airflow at the back of the units/wall otherwise its sealed off, stale air and mould can form on the walls.



If you look in your van/car you will find a similar system where there are vents on the inside that allow the air in the vehicle to escape , they equelise the pressure when the doors are closing.

Have a go and make a sample unit out of MDF or similar 720h x 575d x 600 w .Make one with a full height back panel ,fit a door and try and close it and see how long it takes. Then drill 3 or 4 25mm holes in it and see the difference when the air is able to escape quickly, put your hand near the holes and feel the air escaping .A drawer unit can be even worse because the air around each drawer has to travel around all the other drawer carcases to get out but Wall units have far less volume of air so they don't have the same issue as base units.

bylromarha

So I'm looking to buy a new kitchen in the next couple of months. Everyone I've spoken to, including my builder, has said Howdens are great.

And then I'm on here...!!!

If Howdens are not great, then who are? Budget is not limitless, but want to get it right for a good price.

Leveller - particularly interested in your opinion as I'm in your neck of the woods.

CKdesigner

bylromarha wrote: »

So I'm looking to buy a new kitchen in the next couple of months. Everyone I've spoken to, including my builder, has said Howdens are great.

And then I'm on here...!!!

If Howdens are not great, then who are? Budget is not limitless, but want to get it right for a good price.

Leveller - particularly interested in your opinion as I'm in your neck of the woods.

Hi

I think you can tell from previous posts on this thread that I'm a kitchen designer! Virtually every day we get customers coming to us saying they are having some building work done and the builder recommended Howdens, or Another 'trade' type kitchen supplier for the new kitchen. But they visited said kitchen supplier and came away less than impressed for various reasons. They do a bit of research and find us! Which is great! But I suspect for every 1 person that leaves a trade supplier unimpressed there is probably 3 people that think it's fine and go with that company.

Personally I think builders should stick to 'building' and leave kitchens to kitchen people!

In short do some research and don't just stick to the national suppliers, you will find a vast array of Independent Kitchen Specialists who are ultimately the specialists in the industry.

CK