kitchen discounts (Howdens)

WannaBLoaded · 30 October 2015 at 10:05PM

CKdesigner wrote: »

And your point is?

My point is it is marketing BS just like your free kitchen plans.

Please don't take this the wrong way but I don't think you are taking this very seriously. Howdens have a business model that is designed to deceive customers! Now this may not be much of an issue in some business sectors but in the kitchen industry I think it is disgusting. purchasing a new kitchen is one of life's most important purchases, far more important than purchasing a car for instance, but there is far more legislation that car retailers have to comply with in order to protect the consumer than there ever is in the kitchen industry.

Now I'm not saying there should be more legislation, as actually I think there is in general too much legislation in life, but unfortunately too many companies like Howdens operate in the kitchen industry and are left alone to get on with their very dubious business practices. And who suffers for this in the end?

We work closely with several German companies and it's amazing how in Germany things are very different. The German market is dominated by Independents not national companies and these Independents are highly regarded professional companies by the communities they are in and kitchen designers are regarded as very professional people on same level as Architects!

CK

Hang on, "now this may not be much of an issue in some business sectors" ? Erm, it is. Every business sector has marketing spin to make something look and sound better. It is capitalism.

You seem to be self promoting if i am honest because you don't make any money in life if you show your customers how much you pay for your stock.

I want to see how much you pay for your kitchen stock from your suppliers so we can see your profit margins are :rotfl:

The customers of Howdens are tradesmen not general consumers.

I have trade accounts all over the shop and the RRP's are all over inflated. Why? To make it look like a better deal.

It is up to YOU to research and decide where you spend your money.

WannaBLoaded · 30 October 2015 at 10:18PM

I had a visit from a howdens rep of a different branch while working on the job. The original company that the quote was issued to didn't get the job because they couldn't do much other than fit the kitchen and tile.

He must have been chasing up and didn't realise a different company had won the job and already purchased the kitchen from a different branch.

I asked him a few questions because i was startled a little how he just turned up at the customers house but said he was there to speak to the "builder".

The quote that branch had issued was £1000 pound more expensive than what we ended up paying meaning that if the other kitchen company had won the job and not haggled they'd have spent £1000 for being thick and not realising that you need to haggle on every business transaction.

This is also why even customers seeing invoices is nonsense really because what you actually end up paying for the kitchen is down to whether the person you are dealing with is having a good day or a bad day.

But the rep did give us his business card and some free pencils. I asked him if he could compete with the branch we used and said they can't do it. But thinking about it, why would he have give me his business card haha.

I think it all depends on how much time you have on your hands how hard you can barter and shop around.

You would obviously have to approach the other brand and forget to tell them you had had a quote from another because some of them are jobs worths.

I would be interested to hear what other kitchen companies on here think of trade suppliers similar to howdens. One of the main reasons we use them is because they are convenient and deliver very quick.

leveller2911 · 30 October 2015 at 10:27PM

WannaBLoaded wrote: »

But the rep did give us his business card and some free pencils. I asked him if he could compete with the branch we used and said they can't do it. But thinking about it, why would he have give me his business card haha.

What they are supposed to do is if you go to another branch for a quote or buy some doors they are supposed to phone the branch where your account is held and find out what your discount rate is so there shouldn't be any difference in the price you pay from branch to branch.

There is no logic whatsoever in branches undercutting each other as the bottom line is the company as a whole makes less money. What sort of business model is that?, its quite pathetic.

I would be interested to hear what other kitchen companies on here think of trade suppliers similar to howdens. One of the main reasons we use them is because they are convenient and deliver very quick.

We make bespoke kitchens and Joinery so can't really comment apart from they are expensive compared to others and the quality is basic compared to other mass producers.

CKdesigner · 30 October 2015 at 10:38PM

Sorry who said I do free kitchen design? I certainly didn't.

Please don't kid yourself or anyone else in thinking Howdens is trade only! You know they will take anyone's money. They just market themselves heavily to carpenters and builders.

You say my comments are 'self promotion' sorry I am here giving my advice and knowledge to posters who ask for it, nowhere do I ever reveal my company name in any thread and I never mention the brands of furniture we do unless directly asked.

I don't understand why you keep asking about what my company pays for its products, there is no comparison to what you do with Howdens. My company has direct accounts with quality manufacturers who only supply their products to experienced, quality retailers who invest in proper retail premises with quality personnel who offer a good level of customer service. These manufacturers could not exist without quality retailers and vice versa.

CK

CKdesigner · 30 October 2015 at 11:07PM

If I really think about it, Howdens doesn't really affect what my company does. I started my company over 14 years ago now because I realised I was fairly good at designing kitchens and enjoyed it, which means I have a passion for what I do. And this means I expect our suppliers and our employees to have a similar passion. I also think that our customers recognise and understand this passion and actually want a part of it.

Then I look at companies like Howdens and see nothing, no design skills, no quality of products and the only desire is to make things as cheaply as possible and sell them for as much money as possible and use whatever tactics it can think of to achieve as much profit as possible. I think this 'policy' acts like a disease that permeates through all aspects of the business and leaves no care given to the end user. Sorry I just find this sad.

CK

WannaBLoaded · 30 October 2015 at 11:43PM

Well you might not directly promote but googling your name helps to shed some light. Or maybe you really are the real life david brent

I don't like to see other business going around bad mouthing other businesses, i think it is poor.

What you are really saying, as i am trying to point out to you, is that you do not like the way they market the goods they offer. Fair enough, you may not like it, but there's not much difference in many other business sectors.

Have you ever had a window salesman around?

They will give you a massive price when they have been sitting in your house for 2 hours and then once they finally leave after being rejected, they'll be back within minutes having knocked grands off the price.

I think your sadness at how howdens sell over priced goods and have blarney discounts is false, it should make someone like you happy because you should be able to steal a load of customers with your apparently far superior goods and service.

We'll agree to disagree anyway.

I am not howdens best friend, i think the sales process is very obtuse and pricey. I picked up a trade price book off their counter the other day, it wasn't worth the paper it was printed on.

WannaBLoaded · 30 October 2015 at 11:54PM

leveller2911 wrote: »

What they are supposed to do is if you go to another branch for a quote or buy some doors they are supposed to phone the branch where your account is held and find out what your discount rate is so there shouldn't be any difference in the price you pay from branch to branch.

There is no logic whatsoever in branches undercutting each other as the bottom line is the company as a whole makes less money. What sort of business model is that?, its quite pathetic.

I don't feel as though we have a set discount. I thought this is why they claim to have two price rises a year so that you can't keep going over old invoices. When ever we have a kitchen quote the discounts are always different on the various products. We can't say for sure if we get 80%, 60% or what have you. They make it confusing on purpose.

I agree the competing should be pointless but as the guy i spoke to alluded, they have targets to meet. If you are the manager of a branch that has not hit a turn over figure and it is getting towards the end of the month, you may be inclined to bend the rules.

I hear a lot of people who are not in the trade getting sold to. Although looking at some of the prices i have seen they have paid more, in some cases, than their contractor would have paid. But this is another aspect of the marketing bs because the customer is now frantically patting themselves on the back pocket thinking they have saved money by cutting out the middle man when they haven't really.

It is a pathetic business model and the powers that be in howdens may not be in control of it due to the pressure they no doubt apply to branches to sell more.

We make bespoke kitchens and Joinery so can't really comment apart from they are expensive compared to others and the quality is basic compared to other mass producers.

I have always felt that they are expensive, just convenient.

leveller2911 · 31 October 2015 at 12:01PM

WannaBLoaded wrote: »

I don't feel as though we have a set discount. I thought this is why they claim to have two price rises a year so that you can't keep going over old invoices. When ever we have a kitchen quote the discounts are always different on the various products. We can't say for sure if we get 80%, 60% or what have you. They make it confusing on purpose.

Absolutely................Go back 20yrs and we knew what our discount was on most products and the more business you put their way the more discount you received. Its not the same now and as you have found out in having items within a quote having 35%,75%,85% discount is meant to confuse. As we all know a 65% discount off a MRRP is complete tosh. Manufacturers retail prices are prices ,highly inlfated and plucked out of thin air.

I agree the competing should be pointless but as the guy i spoke to alluded, they have targets to meet. If you are the manager of a branch that has not hit a turn over figure and it is getting towards the end of the month, you may be inclined to bend the rules.

When I opened my account years ago there were very few branches around ,in fact the local one was 45 miles away.Now I have 5 in a 15mile radius all having targets and all cutting each others throats to get the turnover ,which as we all know is not profit. The head office/owners must be complete numpties to have their business model. The ethos of a builder having a branch within 30 minutes drive must have cost them £millions.

When you consider that people will at best replace their kitchen every 7-10 years there is only a certain amount of business to be had in any given area so flooding an area with branches makes no sense.

I hear a lot of people who are not in the trade getting sold to. Although looking at some of the prices i have seen they have paid more, in some cases, than their contractor would have paid. But this is another aspect of the marketing bs because the customer is now frantically patting themselves on the back pocket thinking they have saved money by cutting out the middle man when they haven't really.

Exactly.................

It is a pathetic business model and the powers that be in howdens may not be in control of it due to the pressure they no doubt apply to branches to sell more.

The turnover of staff now tells us all that there is massive pressures to sell ,meet their targets and no different than DG salesmen. I would also say that with a massive turnover of staff moral must suffer and also their "kitchen designers" make so many stupid errors such as putting wine racks each side of a hob extractor "because theres enough space". They use kitchen software and fit boxes into spaces, no flexibility and without a real thought of how people actually move around the kitchen.

Kitchen planning is not rockets science but I have seen some really nicely planned kitchens that work amazingly well. In the right instance I would use a "kitchen designer" for my own kitchen and there is a huge difference between one with 2 days tuition on some software and one who understands how people use/move around a kitchen ,has years of experience and still has a passion for the work.

A kitchen is the heart of a home and is a workshop, a well planned workshop makes life so much easier than a poorly planned one.

I have always felt that they are expensive, just convenient

Bespoke kitchens are always going to be expensive compared to mass produced ones. I'm not gonna "big up" bespoke kitchens and give you a load of old flannel on how they are worth the extra because in many cases they are not. A kitchen is nothing more than a load of boxes filled with air and screwed together with doors on.

People will pay good money to have one made from materials that are better than "Egger" board (chipboard) and doors constructed from top grade timbers ,mouldings especially made to a design, bookmatch veneers on the door panels and units that are made to fit an exact space rather than having lots of infill panels. We have even made metal handles and then sent them off to be plated in allsorts of metals but to be honest even I don't see the point.
I would say that a well made bespoke kitchen will last 50,60yrs even if people like to change them every 7-10yrs :rotfl:. You can't say the same for modern standard kitchens.

I recently priced up a small kitchen to make and fit and my quote came in £1,000 more than the quote they had from Wickes. That should never be right .Yet another case of a company inflating their prices. Their "dry fit" price was £2,400-00 for what is , at best a 5 days work.

leveller2911 · 31 October 2015 at 1:31PM

WannaBLoaded wrote: »

I don't like to see other business going around bad mouthing other businesses, i think it is poor.

Post edited .

However I will just say people need to think very carefully before taking the moral high ground......................