Hugh's War on Waste

Pollycat

PixieDust wrote: »

I have been inspired by this thread and the programme, and have had a rummage in the bottom of the fridge. I have chopped and cooked off half an onion (seen better days but still edible), half a courgette, half a yellow pepper and a few teeny tiny whole mushrooms that we had left over from last week. I now have a yummy looking accompaniment for some pasta or a jacket spud tomorrow for lunch. I am by no means one of nature's little cooks but I am feeling jolly chuffed with myself just now for creating something from nothing and saving waste

Well done you!
Enjoy! :T

[Deleted User]

JACKIE they may not give a tinkers cuss for their customers but they surely DO care about our money. If we all decide not to shop there because of their practises and attitude they'll be up the creek and paddleless pretty quickly won't they?

carlislelass

A bendy carrot tastes the same as a perfect one. I wont buy prepacked veg so always end up with peculiar specimens. Drives me mad when everything has to be washed...can no-one use water The guy in the pink shirt was the smarmiest Ive seen

GreyQueen

martinsurrey wrote: »

You are right, what would happen if the supermarkets didn't renew his contract as they were going to be more flexible with their other suppliers and not insist on having so much oversupply and taking all of the other farms produce not just the best of the bunch?

Would we then be angry at the supermarkets for not giving him a contract and forcing him and hundreds of other farms to close?

I'm not sure of your point? Apologies if I'm being dense, it's been a long day.

Supermarkets have destroyed the independant sector in greengrocery as in many other areas of retail, by using their corporate muscle directly on the producers, instead of dealing with wholesalers, like the independants do. I actually know two indy greengrocers, one with a shop and one with a market stall. I once asked the stallholder if he had a particular veg and he hadn't, as it'd been too expensive at the wholesaler so he hadn't bought it that time as he knew from experience that it was more than his customers would pay. The market self-corrects.

But delivering veg or fruit on a contract isn't as straightforward as delivering widgets, unless you are in completely-controlled environments such as big hydroponics outfits - go across to the Hook of Holland and marvel at an entire landscape under glass (and plastic) with the odd farmhouse roof sticking out.

The supermarkets aren't insisting on oversupply, they are insisting on a certain number, type and very specific size and weight of a natural product, to a very specific timescale, and rejecting anything which doesn't comply with their very arbitary standards. The oversupply is the risk carried by the farmer and the loss is their loss, not the supermarkets' loss.

For outdoor crops, the variables are constantly changing. I've watched irrigators running IN THE RAIN on potato fields for day after rainy day. Because the spuds are being grown for crisp manufacturers and must be delivered to a certain size and mustn't be too big or too small. And they're plugging into acquifer water to do this, in some of the driest and most-densely populated parts of the UK.

If a farmer anticipates that only 20% of his crop will be cosmetically perfect enough, he has to over-produce grossly to get enough to deliver. If the standard would mean that 80-90% were good enough, he would be sowing less to start with, using less fertiliser, fewer pesticides, using less water, using less fuel for the machinery and being more efficient overall. It wouldn't compute that more efficient farming would mean that contracts would be lost, because all the supplying farms would be doing the same thing.

Should it be justice that a farming family work for 12 months and end up with no profit, or even a loss, and count themselves grateful to still have the supermarket contract which will enable them to risk the same thing next year? And the year after, until they reach the tipping point into bankruptcy? Or should we say to the supermarkets, you want to give us all this warm and fuzzy guff about how friendly and likeable and cuddly and on our side you are, and you treat your suppliers like s**t?! Does. not. compute.

And call them on it. Morrisons are getting called on it, and I really hope their top brass is sweating right now and their bottom line shrinks, and that they understand that they've been caught behaving very badly in front of millions of people and the least-worst thing they could do now is mend their ways - and mend them fast, publicly and permanantly.

armyknife

Arrogant behaviour shown by Morrisons in last night's programme.

If those two corporate drones had spent a bit less time thinking how clever they would be dealing with HFW and had instead seriously thought about the problems their behaviour was causing, perhaps it wouldn't have been such a PR own goal.

Their twitter account is having to field dozens of questions an hour from angered customers.
:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Morrisons?p=s

NewShadow

armyknife wrote: »

Arrogant behaviour shown by Morrisons in last night's programme.

If those two corporate drones had spent a bit less time thinking how clever they would be dealing with HFW and had instead seriously thought about the problems their behaviour was causing, perhaps it wouldn't have been such a PR own goal.

Their twitter account is having to field dozens of questions an hour from angered customers.
:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Morrisons?p=s

If you follow the link to the wonkyveg Facebook post; am I the only one amused that one of the top comments is complaining that items (a specific brand of biscuits) were not in stock in a specific store - that complaint being exactly the reason the stores overstock in the first place :rotfl:

meritaten

GreyQueen wrote: »

I'm not sure of your point? Apologies if I'm being dense, it's been a long day.

Supermarkets have destroyed the independant sector in greengrocery as in many other areas of retail, by using their corporate muscle directly on the producers, instead of dealing with wholesalers, like the independants do. I actually know two indy greengrocers, one with a shop and one with a market stall. I once asked the stallholder if he had a particular veg and he hadn't, as it'd been too expensive at the wholesaler so he hadn't bought it that time as he knew from experience that it was more than his customers would pay. The market self-corrects.

But delivering veg or fruit on a contract isn't as straightforward as delivering widgets, unless you are in completely-controlled environments such as big hydroponics outfits - go across to the Hook of Holland and marvel at an entire landscape under glass (and plastic) with the odd farmhouse roof sticking out.

The supermarkets aren't insisting on oversupply, they are insisting on a certain number, type and very specific size and weight of a natural product, to a very specific timescale, and rejecting anything which doesn't comply with their very arbitary standards. The oversupply is the risk carried by the farmer and the loss is their loss, not the supermarkets' loss.


If a farmer anticipates that only 20% of his crop will be cosmetically perfect enough, he has to over-produce grossly to get enough to deliver. If the standard would mean that 80-90% were good enough, he would be sowing less to start with, using less fertiliser, fewer pesticides, using less water, using less fuel for the machinery and being more efficient overall. It wouldn't compute For outdoor crops, the variables are constantly changing. I've watched irrigators running IN THE RAIN on potato fields for day after rainy day. Because the spuds are being grown for crisp manufacturers and must be delivered to a certain size and mustn't be too big or too small. And they're plugging into acquifer water to do this, in some of the driest and most-densely populated parts of the UK.
that more efficient farming would mean that contracts would be lost, because all the supplying farms would be doing the same thing.

Should it be justice that a farming family work for 12 months and end up with no profit, or even a loss, and count themselves grateful to still have the supermarket contract which will enable them to risk the same thing next year? And the year after, until they reach the tipping point into bankruptcy? Or should we say to the supermarkets, you want to give us all this warm and fuzzy guff about how friendly and likeable and cuddly and on our side you are, and you treat your suppliers like s**t?! Does. not. compute.

And call them on it. Morrisons are getting called on it, and I really hope their top brass is sweating right now and their bottom line shrinks, and that they understand that they've been caught behaving very badly in front of millions of people and the least-worst thing they could do now is mend their ways - and mend them fast, publicly and permanantly.

You are so right - Supermarkets expect 'uniform' fruit and veg, and don't seem to understand that mother nature doesn't work that way! um - and they have hoodwinked a whole generation into thinking this way too!
they also want it outside the growing season - or to extend the growing season - making it more expensive for the growers. yet they wont pay them a fair price. as they want the price to be 'static' year round.
when I was young (many moons ago), shops only had 'loose' fruit and veg and the customer could point out which individual fruit or veg they wanted to purchase. well supermarkets still do this - but, the veg and fruit must still be as uniform as the 'pre-packed' - and sometimes its cheaper to get the prepacked!

honeythewitch

MrsLurcherwalker wrote: »

JACKIE they may not give a tinkers cuss for their customers but they surely DO care about our money. If we all decide not to shop there because of their practises and attitude they'll be up the creek and paddleless pretty quickly won't they?

I was under the impression that all the big supermarkets demand a certain quantity and uniformity of produce, and that the contract prevents the farmers selling the surplus elsewhere?

If this is the case, we would need to boycott all of the supermarkets, but they (or we, as customers) have put the alternative greengrocers out of business, so we are left with no choice.
If you have a monopoly, you can do what you like, unfortunately.

NewShadow

Would someone mind explaining something to me - allowing for the fact that it's late, and that I'm still recovering from the plague so could be missing the obvious.

Situation

• farmers are producing too much veg, so much is being mulched before it goes to the supermarket
  
• supermarkets are stocking too much veg, so much is being thrown away before it get's sold.
  
• consumers are buying too much veg, so much is being thrown away before it gets eaten

Facts I have noted from this thread and the show

• Consumers select veg based on a range of factors, but when given the choice of an abundance of A and B grade veg for the same price, tend to choose A - It's 'nicer'.
  
• Customers are happy to buy lower grade produce if sold at a lower price (or when mixed in with higher priced produce during times of shortage)
  
• Supermarkets select veg based on physical attributes to maximise the volume of produce they can sell at A grade - A provides a better ROI for the same store space and grade A and B both take up the same amount of space
  
• Farmers plant an excess of produce to ensure maximum yield at A grade - one assumes that this forms a basis for contract negotiation, with a farmer bidding to provide a higher volume of A grade winning over a farmer that does not bid to the same volume of higher grade produce

Interesting point of note

• In years where they has been a shortage of produce, lower grade items have been sold as higher grade, accepted by supermarkets, and accepted by customers.

Question

• Given the supermarkets will accept and sell lower grade produce if required to ensure stock levels are maintained, why are the farmers producing an excess to ensure they supply a higher grade and resulting wastage?

I understand how hard it is to predict total yield - so I appreciate it may be inevitable that in some years there's a glut or a shortage, but if the farmers agreed collectively to only plan and plant enough crops to fulfil the orders for produce based on projected consumption, wouldn't the supermarkets then have to buy the lower grade orders and waste would therefore be minimised?

In my plague addled brain, the only reason this wouldn't work is if the farmers are able to secure more profitable contracts if they bid to produce more A grade veg, and therefore choose to over plant in order to maximise their earning for that grade - in the same way the supermarkets prefer to purchase higher grade produce as they want to maximise the profit they make per metre of shop by selling higher priced premium veg in preference to the lower grade (which has to be sold at a lower price).

I know I'm going against the grain of the thread, but surely it's a whole system problem - not just how unreasonable the supermarkets are being to the farmers?

Anyhoo - I'm going to try and get my 4 hours sleep before awaking to my customary coughing fit.

[Deleted User]

GQ great post and sums it up entirely.Supermarkets demanding grade A produce is a bit like saying when you have your child it MUST be a Grade A person We all as humans come in all sizes shapes colours and packages.We sometimes have the odd blemish or two doesn't mean that the humans amongst us get thrown away.There are fat ones skinny ones top -heavy ones and definitely some odd looking or crooked ones but we all underneath have some redeeming points :):):)
Good job new Mums don't look at their babies and say 'Oh I'm not having that one its not perfect' I daresay the big guns at Morrisons and a few of the other supermarkets are feeling the backlash from irate customers this week and good job.I think HFW has brought things out into the open and more power to his elbow.I felt so sad for that farming family who have been treated dreadfully.No one in their right mind could or would carry on in the industry that can't give them a decent wage .Farming has always been a risky business because of our weather amongst other things. But this new threat to farmers perhaps means the end of home produced stuff and it will cost us all more in the end as we will have to import from sources abroad that may not have as stringent practices as we have in the UK ...horse sarnie anyone