PCM Parking Fine

Sublyme

Afternoon all,


So I've recently received a couple of parking fines for parking in my nominated parking spot at my rented residence.


The context is that the management agency has retained PCM to manage the car parking for the leasehold, and who then issued letters and parking permits to all residents. This would be fine, except I have never received one, or any notification of the change in agent. I've since spoken to PCM who, unsurprisingly, are sticking to their stance that I should pay up immediately, or else. They're also adamant that I need to pay £10 for a replacement permit.


My landlord is fully behind me, but I'd like to know whether the law is still on my side in this case? Should I ignore/inform PCM I'm aware that they have no legal grounds for invoicing me in this way?


Advice much appreciated.


Cheers.

zardoz70

What does your lease say?
Does it mention parking at all, permit etc.
Management agents can't change that after the fact without your agreement.
Others vastly more expert will no doubt be along in due course but there are a LOT of similar threads on this type of subject.
And it isn't a 'fine. :-)

Half_way

What does your lease/rental agreement say in regards to parking - this is very important as if you dont say what your agreement says ( or doesn't say ) any further advice may be a complete waste of time.

You may be able to get in touch with the management company tell them to shove their permit scheme where the sun doesnt shine (£10 seriously??) and then also tell them that if you get any letters from their agents PCM you will be billing the management company for your wasted time and expenses, Tell them that if anyone from PCM or acting on PCMs behalf sets foot in your space you may sue for trespass. also tell them to look at Davey vs UKCPs

but thats just a starter, what does your rental/lease say????

Sublyme

Thanks both, I'll check my lease agreement and see what it says before doing anything else. Appreciate the advice.

g0wfv

Half_way wrote: »

also tell them to look at Davey vs UKCPs

R L Davey v UK Parking Control (not UKCPS!)

Umkomaas

g0wfv wrote: »

R L Davey v UK Parking Control (not UKCPS!)

ROGER DAVEY QC -v- UKPC

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**

Coupon-mad

Sublyme wrote: »

Thanks both, I'll check my lease agreement and see what it says before doing anything else. Appreciate the advice.

Same advice as here, except for the fact yours is not a hire car:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5348808

PCM are IPC scum who were exposed on Watchdog:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/is-it-pcm-uk-who-make-up-stuff-all-time.html

Ex-clampers acting in the same crim way, allegedly, as they always did.

The context is that the management agency has retained PCM to manage the car parking

Well that will end in tears then - show the management agency the Watchdog clip. Utter IDIOTS allowing PCM anywhere near your cars.

Sublyme

Hi all,

Thanks for all the above replies.

Quick update on this. I've since been forwarded a copy of the leasehold agreement by my landlord, and it is very specific about ownership of both the flat and the parking bay. Essentially, he owns both until the leasehold expires in about 100 years.

There is no mention of use of the parking space in my rental agreement, but I do have an email from my landlord explicitly granting permission to use the space. There were also specific conversations with the management agency that handled the rental of the property around the use of the car parking space, although I appreciate that these are hard to prove.

In the meantime PCM have handed the outstanding notices over to Debt Recovery Plus Ltd - I'm not sure if this is a standalone company, or a department within the same organisation as PCM. In the same period the 'charges' have been increased for each ticket to £160, for no apparent reason. DRP also pointed me towards the case of Parking Eye vs Beavis as a 'landmark' case supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2013-0280-judgment.pdf. (Add the www to that URL - as I'm a new user I can't post links!)

The above case seems to me to be entirely different from my own scenario, in that they were able to establish loss to the owner of the car park.

I've also missed both the private and POPLA appeals windows for these charges, so neither of those are potential remediation avenues

Given this scenario I'd appreciate any further advice on my current stance, which is essentially:
- that I have every right to park in the parking space, regardless of whether I have a permit or not, as I have the express permission of the owner
- no loss has been suffered by the owner as a result of my parking there

Unsure as to what my next steps should be - should I provide all of the evidence to PCM/DRP and see what happens, or ignore everything and wait to see if they go down the route of a court summons and contest it there if they do?

Cheers,

Tom

Guys_Dad

Leasehold does not equal freehold ownership. It grants the right to lease a property subject to the t&c in the lease as stipulated by the landowner.

There will probably be a clause in the lease between the landowner and your landlord that allows a management company to bring in such measures as they deem fit for the running of the site. That includes window cleaners, maintenance etc and, although not specifically mentioned by name, the ability to take such measures as a PPC. You need to look for that clause. If it is not there - that is the catch all clause - then come back and tell us, but I would be most surprised.

You need to establish who is at fault in you not getting the permit. It will either be the managing agent or your landlord. The managing agent need not disclose to you any correspondence with the leaseholder (Data Protection) so you need to get your landlord to ask for proof of a letter and permit.

I wonder what address it would have been sent to? Surprised if agent had leaseholder's other address but worth checking. If the managing agent has not sent it out, then they MUST cancel or pay themselves.

There is one other entity that may be in the loop. Do you rent through an estate agent? If so, they may have been sent the permit and letter. If so and they did nothing, then the landlord should seek to recover any costs ffrom them.

Sublyme

Sadly, the catch-all clause is in place.

In terms of establishing who is at fault, I have an email trail of a conversation held with PCM. The long and short of it is that they provided me with a permit free of charge as a result, rather than holding firm to their demand that I pay £10 for a 'replacement'. They never expressly admit not having provided a permit, but at the same time they do not have any proof that they did. Also worth noting that the replacement was sent directly to my address, and was received without any issue. Does this imply fault on their side?

My landlord was not provided with the permit, and nor was the management agency. It appears that in this case they just missed sending it out.

Coupon-mad

There is clearly fault on PCM's side. They do this a lot and they demand money anyway. Ignore DRPlus and Zenith letters, exactly as post #4 of the NEWBIES thread tells you. If you get a Letter before Claim from PCM or Gladstones, come back.

Compare notes by private message with this poster, no need to tell us about ANY debt recovery plus or Zenith letters...please:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5397952

(@ both posters): make yourselves a thorn in the side of the Managing Agents and see which one of you can get the stupid 'charges' cancelled first.