EMERGENCY!! bailiffs, c.tax, no idea! Scots law

Kevicho

wordsfan wrote: »

WOW!! what a hornet's nest I've stirred up here - seems there are some things that need clarifying.

Whilst in an official sense what MM is saying is correct - I cannot help but sense a lack of sympathy and compassion for those of us on this forum who, whilst yes we are in debt, on many occasions this is through no fault of our own and we ARE trying to get these debts paid off. Which if you are like me and on a low income, living in an expensive location (not through mere choice) and a single parent is NOT EASY. My debts have accrued for a number of reasons:

Hi there wordsfan, having read this thread i see two sides to the argument, one from people trying to help, the other from someone who seems to have some sort of agenda.

I wouldnt worry too much about "stirring up a hornets nest" and it is sad that someone is trying to hijack your thread to throw accusations, this sort of behaviour is unnaceptable on this forum, it says be nice to all moneysavers and do not prejudge!

Good luck with sorting this out, again i concur, phone the council first, make sure they have our new details, timeof moving and all other relevant details and ask them to send a breakdown statement of what you owe.

Tell them you are willing to pay what you owe but first you want this breakdown, also tell them to call off the hounds so to speak.


Good luck in your life, you sound like a determined women, and hopefully your luck will improve soon.

best wishes

Kev

plumduff-2

Okay dokey... so the "bailiffs" were calling regarding an overpayment of housing benefit and NOT for unpaid council tax...

If this is the case, then they are not acting as "bailiffs" but as debt collectors... I have seen this myslef with Equita and Rossendale bailiffs..

Apparently both these companies and others probably have taken on both duties.. Now here it gets tricky...

When they are collecting unpaid CT - they are acting as private bailiffs and can charge their extortionate fees and have powers of entry and are able to secure goods outside the house - ie a car by clamping it...

BUT

If they are acting for HB overpayments, they are putting on their "debt Collection Agency" hat and as such have to comply within the OFT Guidleines on debt collection... So, no rights of netry and you can offer them whatever based on your I&E - as low as £1 per month if this is all you can afford..

Now, some points:

1 check that any letters oyu get, do not make reference to them being bailiffs - cos if collecting HB overpayment, they are not bailiffs in this instance.. if they write bailiffs ref or has bailiffs on top of the letter - Complain...

2. Make sure they are not adding charges.. as they would with their bailliff hat, again, not allowed to do so... Complain..

When you write to them with your offer.. (£1 pm if on low income) inform them that they are acting as DCA's and any breaches of the OFT Guidelines will result in a complaint to the OFT, Trading Standards and the Financial Services Ombudsman...

Generally works...

I have seen several of these in recent months. I have complained to the LA about their use of bailiff firms as DCAs and complained to the bailiff/DCA about misuse of hteir powers.. I have pointed out they must comply with the regulations and Equita, who are especially bad at responding to my letters, have sent me a very nice one accepting the paymetn proposal... Unlike any Ive had of them when they are collecting as bailiffs for CT...

Shame you felt the need to explain your situation cos MM !!!!!! was judging you... Surprise surprise.. loved your comment about MM going to nightschool to learn about compassion - classic....! And so true..

Hope this helps.. xxx

wherediditallgo

moneymare wrote: »

I think you'll find, I also advised it best for the OP to contact the Bailiffs asap to try and resolve the matter.

I can assure you that all complaints are examined thoroughly.

Having worked in this job for the past 10 years, I am experienced enough to know that if I was to receive a Reminder Letter, Final Notice, Summons or Liability Order Questionnaire, I would be looking to resolve the problem as soon as possible.
My sympathy wanes for people who choose to ignore all previous correspondence and then feel the need to complain when they are subject to Bailiff action, or any other form of recovery action - eg Attachment to Earnings, or in extreme cases, bankruptcy.

Unfortunately, Ignorance or 'Ostrich-syndrome' is no defence.

In that case, I hope your sympathy similarly wanes for bailiffs who also ignore correspondence. I know they do, because when a bailiff was called in against me for Council Tax, I made several telephone calls which were followed up by faxes confirming the content of the conversation, all of which were ignored. I would leave messages for the bailiffs on their mobile phones, messages that were never returned. The staff at the office were rude and extremely unhelpful - I was even told by one of them that I owed money, and if I didn't pay it they'd be round the following day to remove goods. That's something I now know they wouldn't legally be able to do, but at the time I was scared that my home would be emptied for a debt I knew I didn't owe. Thankfully, I wasn't just scared, I was also extremely angry, & one day I decided I'd had enough and made an official complaint to my local authority, giving them 14 days in which to sort the situation out or be reported to the Local Ombudsman. I faxed the complaint to them together with copies of all the faxes I'd sent to the bailiffs, and then faxed the same documents to the bailiffs. Suddenly, the bailiffs wanted to talk.

The council took my case back from the bailiff at my written insistence and reviewed it. They realised I had been correct all along, so the court fees were returned to me and I was given compensation and a written apology.

Not every bailiff is a rogue, but neither is every person purported to be a debtor because they've been taken to court. Bailiffs didn't get their reputation because they happen to be the chosen target for the year, they got it because so many of them do behave like thugs. It doesn't matter how cuddly you say your lion is & how much it likes its tummy tickled - if every other lion I've heard about likes humans for breakfast, dinner & tea, & has breath that could strip walls, I'll be calling them potentially deadly creatures from a safe distance away until they prove otherwise. The same applies to bailiffs. Your job means you probably do deal with some people who have every excuse under the sun for why they haven't paid. That doesn't apply to everyone. From your side of the fence, it may seem that there are more excuses than genuine reasons for Council Tax not being paid. Well, on the day that an administrator makes a mistake with your records, you may unintentionally find someone trying to wedge that fence somewhere dark & damp about your person while telling you about van fees & their rights to enter your home, & perhaps then you'll understand why people feel the way they do about them. Your job doesn't make you immune to the mistakes of others, or protect you from the effects of your own.

rog2

wherediditallgo wrote: »

In that case, I hope your sympathy similarly wanes for bailiffs who also ignore correspondence.

Extremely well put WDIAG - It would seem that MM's 10 years 'experience' in the council collection department have turned him into a very bigoted person, who does no credit to the 'reputation of trust and impartiality' that we have the right to expect from public service employees.

He is quick to accuse others of 'head in sand' syndrome, yet fails to see his own inadequecies.

Tootsie_Roll

rog2 wrote: »

You are quite right - and it is one of the overriding principles of this forum - other posters should NOT be judgemental, especially when they are NOT aware of the facts.

Creditors, including Councils, nearly always assume that debtors are 'avoiding' their debts, and often resort to court action far too quickly in order to 'shift' all responsibility to the debtor. They are, too often, very quick to point out that they are 'doing their job' yet seldom do they consider, or try to find out, the circumstances of the 'alleged debtor' before resorting to litigation.

Wow I was going to ask how you justify all your judgemental guess work that you spout in the majority of your posts and which you've demonstrated very well in this post !

Amazing the double standards you live to.

Tootsie_Roll

rog2 wrote: »

Extremely well put WDIAG - It would seem that MM's 10 years 'experience' in the council collection department have turned him into a very bigoted person, who does no credit to the 'reputation of trust and impartiality' that we have the right to expect from public service employees.

He is quick to accuse others of 'head in sand' syndrome, yet fails to see his own inadequecies.

More judgemental guess work !

Who me ! :rolleyes:

kathy206

MM and Tootsie Roll,how exactly are your comments going to help the OP?
Having dealt with bailiffs and debt collection agencies, my overriding experience is they are VERY difficult to negotiate with,all they want is as much money as possible,as quickly as possible, (never mind if it leaves nothing to feed your kids on... )they load on as many charges as they can,and they give misleading information unless challenged with the letter of the law. I feel saddened that the OP had to justify her situation when all she wanted was advice. I would consider the saying "there but for the grace of God go I.." before posting such judgemental views. (however we are used to such vitriol from certain posters here...:rolleyes: ) No-one knows what is around the corner for themselves,however hard they plan.
OP Good luck with the CAB and here's hoping you get a satisfactory outcome,and well done for getting such a good degree in such difficult circumstances.
Kathyxx

plumduff-2

Tootsie Roll, you trying your hardest to get banned from ANOTHER debt help forum.. My god, your rollof honour so far is:

DHUK
Debt Questions

Only a matter of time before you also get banned from MSE...!

Well heres hoping its sooner rather than later.. xxx

rog2

plumduff-2 wrote: »

Only a matter of time before you also get banned from MSE...!

Well heres hoping its sooner rather than later.. xxx

I'm surprised it took so long for the 'resident' T.Roll to pick up on this thread. :rolleyes:

Seriously T.Roll, one day your total disrespect, not only for the ethos of this forum, but for the circumstances of posters who look to this board for help and non-judgemental guidance, is going to rebound on you big time.

You know what happens now - someone is going to report your threads as abusive and they will be removed - it happens every time. Quite frankly, your 'bully-boy' behaviour is starting to get just a bit boring.

Not only would MSE be a better place without you, but so would the 'Debt Collection Industry' to which you claim allegience, yet to whom your posts do no credit.

moneymare

For the record, my gripe was not with the OP, but with rog2 and plumduff's 'balanced' view of Bailiffs. I objected to the term 'legalised thugs' and 'legalised criminals'. I am expressing my opinion, and just because it does not fit in with certain members on this forum, they have what I can only describe as a 'hissy fit'.
Hope the OP has resolved the matter.